"Just Stop Oil" protestors jumped on stage at Les Miz West End — Page 2

Zeppie2022 said: "I did not think it was against the rules of this board to post opinions no matter how wrong some people think those opinions are."

Thanks Zeppie, I agree. Unfortunately some people live by the idea that everyone can do what they want, that breaking the law is ok, as long as it suits their opinion, without paying attention to others, and if they don't like another opinion, remove them. That is also the message they are giving off to the oil companies and government. I hope they're happy when they follow that attitude.

Updated On: 10/6/23 at 02:56 AM

Trying desperately to steer the conversation back to the matter at hand, there are ways to protest and make positive movement to get people on your side. Civil disobedience has always been essential in change. That being said, there's better ways than others. I do not believe this group ever think their protests through. By stopping a show, did they change anyone's minds? I'd say certainly not. Not only did they fail to do that, they were endangering lives of the company and the audience who did not agree to participate. They sowed anger, not positive change. That's how they'll be remembered. Instead of being people who's trying to wake people up to an environmental emergency, they'll be seen as anarchists. You will never get people on your side as long as people perceive you as the enemy.

Scarywarhol said: "I shudder to think how things would go if the oil industry and government together were comfortable with behaving how they pleased.Do you even hear yourself? Have you been made aware of any world events of the past century?"

Definitely. That's why copying the behaviour that they say they are protesting against is so misplaced.

Stop liking your own replies. You’re looking desperate

You are a bad faith actor and I will call you out on your bull****e, now shut your conspiracy/climate change lies

PART 1:

Seb28 said: "I think these people have no idea what they are doing. Without oil they could never afford a phone or blue hair dye or anything at all any longer.”

While it's true that oil and its byproducts have shaped modern consumerism, suggesting that young people are ungrateful or unaware is an overgeneralization. Gen Z, born between the mid-1990s and early 2010s, contributes significantly to the economy. In the U.S. alone, Gen Z holds an estimated $143 billion in spending power as of 2020, and this number is only growing as they age and enter the workforce.

“The people who really make changes are studying and working very hard to develop alternatives.”

The assertion that only those working directly in alternative energy fields make a difference is narrow. Activism, raising awareness, and driving consumer choices towards sustainable products are also vital. Many among Gen Z are part of the drive towards renewable energy, with the renewable energy sector growing 10.3% globally in 2020, contributing to nearly 12% of the world's energy consumption.

“My theory is that there is a generation "Gen Z", who desperately wants to feel special, feel like the they are the promised oracle, which comes from the way they were raised. Were told they were mommy and daddy's special prince or princess and they were going to make all the difference in the world. Then they hit puberty and needed to get a job and found out that they are nothing. That a boss tells hem what they did wrong on their job (normal course of events), and therefore you see more teenagers than ever with a burnout after 2 weeks working in a side job.”

It's crucial not to confuse awareness of mental health with a lack of work ethic. While it's true that younger generations are more vocal about issues like workplace burnout, it doesn't necessarily mean they are lazier or less resilient. In fact, studies suggest Gen Z is on track to be the best-educated generation yet, with the percentage of high school dropouts decreasing and college enrollment rates increasing.

“Now they found a way to riot, feel like the promised oracle, AND not having to do anything for it, seems like the only way to go.

The problem is that it will not help, not gain any respect, only lead to more damage to nature (blocking roads),”

While some protests can result in short-term disruptions, they often aim to spotlight longer-term issues and drive systemic change. Furthermore, asserting that protests like blocking roads are the leading cause of environmental damage overlooks larger contributors like industrial pollution and deforestation.

“and without alternatives the costs will be so high that it will be impossible for them to have or raise any kids at all. But of course anyone concerned with the climate will not have kids anyway.”

The notion that those concerned with climate change shouldn't have children is a personal choice, not a universally accepted solution. Population growth, while a challenge, can be managed through policies promoting education, women's rights, and access to birth control. Blaming a generation for a population boom that began long before their existence is misplaced.

“The world population has gone from 1 to 8 bilion in 200 years.”

It's essential to remember that Gen Z, like any other generation, is diverse. Painting an entire generation with a broad brush can lead to misleading generalizations. Every generation has its activists, innovators, hard workers, and those that follow alternative paths. Judging an entire cohort by the actions of a few is an oversimplification.

To conclude, while oil and its byproducts have undoubtedly shaped modern life, Gen Z is actively engaging in creating a sustainable future. Instead of minimizing their efforts, it might be more productive to support and collaborate with them for a better tomorrow.

PipingHotPiccolo said: "im increasingly convinced these people-- disrupting shows, throwing soup at works of art, blocking highways-- are being funded by Exxon Mobil or something. Its so thoroughly ignorant and counterproductive."

The soup thing never really added up for me. You're telling me the security guards of this museum with billions of dollars of irreplaceable works of art isn't checking people's bags?

Can’t say I’ve ever been to the Van Gogh museum, but unless it’s the Louvre I can’t imagine security is that heightened. I haven’t been the Chicago Art Institute since early 2022, but I don’t seem to recall any bag checks there and they have some pretty noteworthy pieces.

Updated On: 10/7/23 at 11:19 AM

It's true that individuals alone can't solve the climate crisis; systemic change is crucial. However, dismissing individual efforts or labeling them as hypocritical oversimplifies the issue. Many people strive to reduce their carbon footprints while also pushing for broader systemic changes.

Protests, even if they sometimes seem counterproductive, have historically played pivotal roles in catalyzing change. For example, the 1960s civil rights movements or the anti-apartheid protests in South Africa. Protests bring attention, shape public discourse, and force those in power to respond.

While oil companies do sell a product we've become reliant on, it's also worth noting that they've invested heavily in disinformation campaigns to discredit climate science and delay policy action. A 2019 study found that the largest five stock-market-listed oil and gas companies spent nearly $200m lobbying to block, control, or delay climate-motivated policies.

It's a misconception that there aren't cost-effective, efficient alternatives to fossil fuels. For instance, the cost of solar energy has fallen by 89% in the last decade, making it cheaper than coal in many parts of the world. According to the International Renewable Energy Agency (IRENA), renewable power is consistently cheaper than any new electricity capacity based on fossil fuels.

When people choose to adopt more sustainable lifestyles, it creates a ripple effect. Market demands shift, nudging companies to produce more sustainable products, and governments to enact environmentally-friendly policies.

Different people contribute in different ways. While some may focus on voting for climate-friendly parties or engaging in scientific research, others raise awareness, lobby for change, or support grassroots movements. All these approaches are vital.

While voting for parties with strong environmental agendas is crucial, relying solely on political parties might be risky, given that political dynamics change. Continuous public pressure ensures that environmental concerns remain a top priority.

Labeling protestors as mere attention-seekers is a reductionist perspective. Many are genuinely concerned about the environment and believe in the power of collective action. Their passion is a testament to the urgency of the issue.

In conclusion, while it's essential to approach the issue of climate change with nuance and understand the role of systemic factors, individual actions and protests have an undeniable impact. Collaboration across various sectors and recognizing the value of diverse efforts can bring us closer to a sustainable future.

Call_me_jorge I think your points are all reasonable in a kind of utopia intellectual ideal world but I don't think in practice there is anything positive happening here as a consequence of this action. For example, if we turn the argument away from systemic/government change to individual change, realistically how many people if any do you think honestly were sitting in the audience or reading about this, saw these protests and are likely to change anything about their individual behaviour? In fact, even the message is unclear what exactly individuals can do ("Just Stop Oil"? It's hard for me to see a reasonable causal mechanism for a valuable outcome (it doesn't educate, it doesn't inform, it interrupts, it's not raising awareness because I doubt anyone has heard it for the first time).

I think what has most likely actually happened in this case is it's just annoyed people lol. If we give these people the benefit of the doubt - they are passionate, concerned, have good intentions - it still doesn't mean they actually have done anything of value or actually helped anything. In fact, as a donor of this very group points out they might just be making it worse.

Updated On: 10/8/23 at 08:14 AM

Fetus, maybe it's nicer to take part in the discussion than to lower yourself to a childish personal attack and name calling. If you would have actually read the whole discussion you would have found out that we are actually already 10 steps ahead of that. And that very interesting things have been said. If that's too ambitious for you and you rather choose to stay silent that's ok too. But what you chose to do now, lowering yourself to personal attack, raising your middle finger to the forum moderators and rules is unnecessary. Have a wonderful sunday.

Updated On: 10/8/23 at 11:50 AM