Marin Mazzie Is Still In Carrie? Sad Day...- Page 4

[THDavis]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 9:54am

Thank you PalJoey, I love that. And I don't think it's well represented either. If you can get people into the theatre and change what they're seeing as opposed to trying to relate it to the film or previous musical, that's what can be really touching about it. The cult status or the name alone can get people into a theatre (although it's true that many will find it weird that there's a musical about Carrie, however some will be drawn by curiosity), then there's a chance to make something truly beautiful. The show isn't all about the destruction, that's just part of it.

And as for McGovern being compared to Mazzie? That's awful. McGovern became that role, Mazzie just sang it. I understand Mazzie didn't have rehearsal time, but it'd be hard for me to believe she didn't know ANY of the material before she went. Much of Margaret's stuff was left the same, save a key change here and there.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 10:01am

"The cult status or the name alone can get people into a theatre"

For a few weeks.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 10:08am

I feel like this thread goes round in circles.

Yes a few will know that Carrie was a stage musical and they will all run to the theatre to see whats happened with it. However MOST people will not know, so for them it will be treated as a new musical just like any other new musical of the season.

Carrie will offer theatre goers unaware of its past something new and exciting to get them in, its a show based on a Stephen King novel and movie, it's not at first glance easy to see how this could be a musical, but it will be that what will get people through the door, once in its up to the show to deliver just like it is any new show.

People seem to forget that its us, the ones who spend times on messege boards or those of us who work in this industry who know about the ins and outs of Carrie and her past, other people who are just casual theatre goers looking for a god night out, tourists etc dont think like us and delve in to every point of a new musical.

For 90 percent of the people who go to the theatre they will smplly see Carrie as a new musical, and an intriguing one.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 10:12am

Songanddance - I think that assumption is if this production were hypotehtically to move to Broadway or the West End. But I think its safe to say that probably about 90 percent of the people who will be going to the limited run Off-Broadway production at the tiny MCC will be doing so because of the cult history of the show.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 10:17am

"Carrie will offer theatre goers unaware of its past something new and exciting to get them in"

No. It really won't. For 22 years, having seen Carrie on Broadway has been one of my chief bragging points. I always speak of it excitedly. Most of the people I have mentioned it to are exactly these blissfully unaware creatures you're dreaming up in your narrative, songanddanceman, people who like going to see the touring shows that come to their hometowns. Most of them never even knew there WAS a Carrie musical. And to a person, they say, "Wait. The Stephen King Carrie?" When I respond in the affirmative they roll their eyes. They say what a horrible idea. They laugh at the notion.

People here are in love with a simulacrum, an image of a perfect production they have some how created in their own brains and that will never exist, and never existed in the first place.

Everybody needs their hopes and dreams and myths. Everybody experiences deflated realities in their lives.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 10:40am

Namo so because the few friends you have told that Carrie was a musical seemed unexcited then the show will not got anyone excited?

I also saw the original production (Swan Theatre, RSC 8 and people i told i saw Carrie the Musical who knew nothing about it were fascinated by the idea of a show based around Carrie. It's a show thats going to divide people.

A huge thing Carrie has going for it is Stephen Kings name and its based on his book/movie. After all these are times when theatre goers are more inclined to watch a show based on a book/movie etc than something brand new.

I think people on here are far to quick to jump on this show. The simple fact remains that even after it was a huge flop people still talk about it, long to hear it, track down anything to do with it because the idea at first seems so crazy that you just have to know more.

Some people will see the ads for the shows and go 'that sound awful' and some people will go 'that sounds great', as they do with EVERY SHOW opens.

Carrie is no different.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 10:40am

Personally, my perfect production would be the one Namo and others got to see in 1988, in all its overblown glory. I'm a fan of camp and train wrecks, though.

I don't necessarily think the show really CAN work. In hearing what I heard of the last reading, the show sounds crazier and works less to me when it's brought down to reality, rather than in the epic, Greek tragedy proportions of original.

Since, however, it's not my money funding the MCC production, I hope it happens, because I'd love to hear the score live.

I wish Gore, et al would just let me do MY production, in which I play Margaret, my friend Nicole plays Carrie and a bunch of chunky middle-aged men and women play the Chris, Sue, et al.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 10:44am

I also dont think there can ever be a perfect production of Carrie unless a whole new team wrote all new songs and book etc, but i think with the ideas Stafford and co have i think they can create something quite wonderful.

People will always think some shows are bad ideas because of the sounds of the story, source material etc. I mean a show about a womans mental health breakdown could never run, and a throat slitting barbour is a horrid idea, however people (audience members) can suprise you with what they choose to accept.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 11:28am

Do you think I've only told "a few" friends about Carrie?

List, songanddanceman, you just hold on to your dream, I hope everybody finally gets that Carrie revival, I know there's no possible way it can meet anybody's expectations, no matter how low they are. I don't know WHY you necessarily think that King's name, even tangentially attached to the show, will in and of itself be such a draw.

It's a huge leap from horror readers buying books and seeing movies to hearing about a musical -- even with Stephen King's name on the poster somewhere -- and being motivated to go see a singing/dancing version live and in person. Even IF they have no idea of the history of the show. I think you're the kind of person the producers are foolish to listen to if they ever consider an open ended run.

[bryan2]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 12:03pm

As interesting as the concept is if you listen to the London cast it was a bad show from top to bottom...the beautiful songs sung between Carrie and her Mother were just ok until Betty Buckley sang them and made them scary and over the top with her steely vibrato that raises the roof. Barbara Cook sang them like she always does and they were just pretty nothing spectaclar.
I heard the new tapes of Marin and although I think she is an amazing singer I think the only reason this is even talked about today is because Betty and Lindsay were unreal, the voices shattered the weak material with an amazing strength that really cannot be captured again.
Record the originals with a full orchestra and let the legend live on in a great recording with Betty .. this is the only reason to hear it again...I love Marin but the only reason it worked at all was Bettys thrilling one of a kind vocals that made it the legend it is....RECORD BETTY ...
Updated On: 11/11/10 at 12:03 PM

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 12:09pm

I'm not really sure Betty (or Linzi) could really sing the score anymore - certainly not like they did in 1988; though I do agree that probably the most satisfying solution to the material would be a concert / recording.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 12:23pm

This was kind of an interesting discussion for a while.

Is CARRIE the musical striving to be horror or what Larry Fessenden called "American magic realism" when he was referring to horror?

Some thoughts:

The problem of familiarity is a, well...problem. Remember: Hal Prince's production of SWEENEY TODD wasn't well received in London, largely because Brit critics and audiences were already much more familiar with the story than Americans were and they felt Prince/Sondheim's musical approach was overblown.

That straight-play production of THE EXORCIST is apparently in the works. Sigh.

Ultimately, this production faces bigger problems than marketability and seventies lingo. Namely, the fact that Pitchford and Gore's score is not sophisticated enough for such a challenging project with its opera-supertitle lyrics...they just simply bit off more than they can chew and, no, it's not all Terry Hands' fault. That, and the fact that the climax--a knockout in the movie and book--is nigh unstageable.

That said, like everyone, I can't wait to see it. Yeah, it's probably been transformed from the 1988 "You're all going to laugh at it!" to the plain ol' 2011 "Well, that didn't work." But still...

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 12:38pm

Having seen LaBuckley in concert recently, she might not be able to hit the very top notes she did, but she can hit damn near all of them still. Her voice has stayed in very good shape over the years.

I actually expected after "Whorehouse" for Rudetsky to reunite Buckley and Hateley and do an AFA Concert and get the show recorded.

[bryan2]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 12:42pm

I just find it nuts after all this long and all these people basically begging GORE to have Buckley record it he has not.
It seems crazy...the market is there ....it would be a major coup for him to get it out there. She could still with the help of ..a recording studio... get the notes out there...remember 10x trying 1x actually hitting it in a studio is all is needed

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 1:13pm

I'm just curious as to how this production is really going to fit into the Lortel. The stage is not huge by any means (the stage is about 40' wide, and I don't remember if that measurement is actually wall to wall or just the proscenium opening, and you're only looking at a depth of about 20'). There is no fly space or orchestra pit. And, as I recall, that stage looked pretty full with a cast of 12 on it and a fairly minimal set (I'm specifically remembering Seussical). I can't imagine how cramped it will feel with a fuller ensemble.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 3:03pm

"Do you think I've only told "a few" friends about Carrie?"

A few, a few hundred, in the grand scheme of things it does not really matter

"List, songanddanceman, you just hold on to your dream, I hope everybody finally gets that Carrie revival

My dream?, I’m just speaking my opinion about a show and an industry i work in, you make it sound like I’m a 12 year old fan girl who you can speak down too.

"I know there's no possible way it can meet anybody's expectations, no matter how low they are"

How do you know it cannot meet ANYBODY'S expectations? are you working on the show?

"I don't know WHY you necessarily think that King's name, even tangentially attached to the show, will in and of itself be such a draw."

Oh come on, really?, of course his name is a draw. He has the most diverse fan base in the world from teens to the elderly who enjoy his books/movies/tv epics etc. Carrie is a brand name as is King.

"I think you're the kind of person the producers are foolish to listen to if they ever consider an open ended run."

Again, when having a debate with you you have to get nasty. I own a successful production company which produces theatre so I’m just talking from that perspective as well as my partners who works in Advertising and Marketing for theatre.
Im not saying the show will be a smash hit, I’ve not said anything of the sort, I’m just not so quick to write a show off before its even taken to the stage.
All im saying is Carrie has a much of a shot as any new musical.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 3:30pm

I personally did not mean and cannot see how you took what I said as nasty or personal. I called the producers foolish and I think you have some kind of wish fulfillment fantasy going on here. To say a badly written flop old show has as much chance as any new musical perfectly illustrates the point.

Re

[TheLadyoftheWood]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 4:08pm

Can we put the claws away and just start suggesting who we think could play Margaret...here are a few suggestions to start it off:

Alice Ripley, if Marin can take over for her on Broadway then Alice can definitely do the reverse, her belt is really awesome.
Julia Murney, crazy belt that would wipe the floor with those songs.
Nancy Opel, she has a nice mix that could sound great and i think she can do both campy and serious at the same time.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 4:10pm

Why don't they just bring back crazy Betty Buckley? Would anyone really object?

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 4:20pm

JUDY KUHN!!!!!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 4:31pm

At least let's organize our wish fulfilment fantasies:

Things to deal with (or not):

Bad book, makes no dramaturgical sense

Bad songs, except the mother daughter numbers

Unstageable finale

Bad reputation, except among flop collectors and train-wreck lovers


Things we know we NEED:

A Margaret who can BELT. BELTING. We need BELTING.



***

What else?

Updated On: 11/11/10 at 04:31 PM

[TheLadyoftheWood]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 4:37pm

A calm, easy-going, and non-controlling choreographer who can do the show justice but still leave the directing to the director, unlike others who know who they are!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 4:54pm

Good, seems reasonable.

What else?


I think if there is a viable list of do-able things we can tally them up at the end and see if they're enough to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

[songanddanceman2]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 6:01pm

The book has already been reworked and made perfect sense. Originally the 87 draft of the show had a very strong book, more and more if it vanished as the production went on. It would appear they are going back to the original book which was very heavily based on the movie script, and im pretty sure that made sense.

The score has some clunkers as do most shows. It's biggest problems were always Out For Blood (Gone), Wotta Night (Gone), Dream on (Gone), Hurts to be Strong (Gone).
Apart from the lyrics i think 'IN' worked fine as did 'Do Me a Favour'. The replacment songs are a mixed bag. 'The World According to Chris' makes ther point it needs too but is rather forgettable. However i think 'A Night We'll Never Forget' works quite well. It has a great teen feel and energy which is after all what its supposed to capture.
The Mother/Daughter songs are superb.

Unstageable finale - be real. They can fly people around the air, set stages on fire etc, the finale is far from unstageable. The main way the original went wrong was going for almost abstract. A simple wall of fire behind her and accross the front of the stage and some clever lighting would be fine.

The show has a 'Bad Reputation' as you say amongst the die hard musical fans who know about it, and even then i would not say that reputaion is a bad thing since it's kept it alive for so wrong.

I do find your points intresting though Namo, it's nice to hear and see both sides because essentially thats whay will happen when it opens so it all needs to be said.

[THDavis]

Posted: 11/11/10 at 6:55pm

I, too, hope they record the original score even if they do record the new production. I'd personally love to hear Alice sing the score. She has the same raw power Buckley had. They need to find a voice that can obtain a classical sound without losing that hint of rawness throughout it. Ripley could easily do both the beautiful and the crazy.

I wish they'd have recorded Buckley singing this score 15 years ago, but I think it might be a little late at this point to still capture the unrealistic vocals she had. I'm happy with my soundboard recording for that :)

Mazzie and Cook both were too classical, but I wouldn't mind hearing Murney do it either. That'd be pretty delicious.