"Music and Lyrics by Jerry Herman"- Page 3

[nealb1]

Posted: 1/1/08 at 11:56pm

I thought Gary Beach was brilliant in the role. When someone orginates a role like George Hearn, Carol Channing, Angela Lansbury, etc........whoever replaces that actor, or does a revival of it is always, always going to be compared to the person who created it. And, that's not fair.......it's not fair to the orginator and it's not fair to the actor doing the role.

[jbdc]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 4:45pm

I just put all of the Herman OBCs that I haven't listened to in years on to my iPod. I forgot how good the scores for Mack and Mabel and Dear World are.

[robinycus]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 4:58pm

And neither scores for Dear World nor Mack and Mabel were nominated for a Tony Award.
Updated On: 1/2/08 at 04:58 PM

[jv92]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 9:20pm

Michael Feinstein- What can I say about him? He's a good pianist, a bland singer and a sort of kiss ass. He got way too much screentime in this film. Wathcing and listening to him sing I Won't Send Roses (IN ITS ENTIRETY!) was probably the most boring part of the film. I love that song, not his rendition.
One quibble- Jerry can write down music. He eventually learned. Why didn't they (the filmmakers) clear that up? Through the whole film, one is left with the conclusion that he, like Irving Berlin, Harvey Schmidt (sp?) and several others, was a fine pianist and melody writer, but had no musical training in theory or notation.

[jbdc]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 9:49pm

True, jv.

They even talk about the theory he applies in modulating before the phrase resolves to build momentum, but they imply he knows nothing about theory. hmm...

Herman should write a show ABOUT Feinstein and his rise to whatever he is.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 1/2/08 at 11:23pm

Who is Alice Borden's plastic surgeon? She looks great!

[nealb1]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 1:25pm

The documentary was wonderful. Very, very funny in parts.......Charles Nelson talking about them being in the supermarket when they heard Jerry's song on the overhead speaker..... And, very, very sad........the original male dancers in "La Cage" passing away...one by one....from the onslaught of AIDS in the early 80's.

Barry Brown said it best about "La Cage" - if we had made a message musical, we would have lasted 2 weeks. But, we didn't and we played 4 & 1/2 years.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 3:57pm

I wish they had touched on the whole "Hello, Dolly" vs. "Sunflower" thing. I felt skipping that was a suspicious omission.

Updated On: 1/3/08 at 03:57 PM

[robinycus]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 4:16pm

What do you mean, re the Sunflower thing? Please explain.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 4:20pm

As successful as the stage show and title song itself turned out to be, however, the tune "Hello, Dolly!" unfortunately became caught up in a lawsuit which could have endangered timely plans for bringing the musical to the silver screen. Composer Mack David (1912-1993) sued for infringement of copyright, because the first four bars of Herman's show number were the same as those in the refrain of David's song "Sunflower" from 1948. As he recounts in his memoirs, Herman had never heard "Sunflower" before this and wanted a chance to defend himself in court, but, for the sake of those involved in the show and the potential film, he reluctantly agreed to pay a settlement before the case would have gone to trial.

...

I understand that it cost him a pretty penny.

Updated On: 1/3/08 at 04:20 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 4:27pm

Did they say that "Before the Parade Passes By" was written by Charles Strouse and Lee Adams and NOT by Jerry Herman?

Updated On: 1/3/08 at 04:27 PM

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 4:35pm

Did they?

I have to re-watch it.

I thought they said that Strouse and Merrill were brought in to help (How and to what degree kept unclear) but ultimately Herman wrote the version of Before the Parade that is in the show.

It was late and I was tried when I watched, so I could have easily missed it if Strouse said he wrote Before the Parade.

Updated On: 1/3/08 at 04:35 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 4:42pm

I thought Bob Merrill wrote (or "worked on") "Elegance" and "Motherhood," but Strouse and Adams "worked on" "Before the Parade Passes By."

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 4:44pm

Thats what I heard too.

Elegance and Motherhood are clearly written by or with someone else.

I heard that that Strouse wrote a verion of Before the Parade..but Herman took the Lyric idea and then wrote his own version.

And.. who knows the full story re: Sunflower. There are those who still claim that Herman knew..but out of love for the man and appreciation for the opportunities he gave them, have kept their mouths shut publicly.

Updated On: 1/3/08 at 04:44 PM

[morosco]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 5:17pm

One quibble- Jerry can write down music. He eventually learned. Why didn't they (the filmmakers) clear that up?

I agree. I found that confusing too.

[nealb1]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 5:37pm

Jerry wrote "Before The Parade Passes By" all by himself one night in his hotel room during the out of town tryouts. He goes into great detail about the song and the show in his autobiography that came out in the mid 90's.

[karen24]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 5:50pm

I really enjoyed this special, as well. I missed part of it and am hoping it will be rebroadcast--otherwise I will definitely buy the DVD.
I had one question--was there any mention of Harvey Fierstein's contribution to "La Cage"? I think I saw all of the "La Cage" segment and was a bit surprised that I didn't catch any mention of him--also that he wasn't interviewed. Is there a reason I don't know about? Or just the usual one of the book writer being rather overlooked?

[nealb1]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 5:55pm

Could be anyone of a number of reasons. Harvey could have not been available when this was filmed....could have had other commitments, or his part could have been edited out?

[karen24]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 5:57pm

Yes, that's true. I shouldn't always assume the worst
He might have been busy working on "Catered Affair" or another project.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 6:55pm

From the PBS website for "Broadway: An American Musical":

After collaborating with Jerry Herman on just one song - "Before the Parade Passes By" -- for his smash hit, "Hello, Dolly!" (1964), Adams and Strouse endured mixed fortunes during the next few years. "Golden Boy," starring Sammy Davis Jr. and Billy Daniels, ran for 569 performances, "It's a Bird, It's a Plane, It's Superman" could only manage 129, but "Applause" (1970), a vehicle for the Hollywood legend Lauren Bacall, gave the songwriters their second hit and stayed around for over two years.
Lee Adams Born: August 14, 1924

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 7:05pm

It's one of the most delicious bits of musical comedy backstage skullduggery, but the way I've always heard it, ASCAP credits the song to "Adams, Herman and Strouse" and they receive 50% of the (substantial) proceeds of the song, but Charles Strouse dashed off a note to Herman saying something to the effect of "Yeah. You wrote it. Charles Strouse."

[jv92]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 8:18pm

Herman wrote Before the Parade Passes By (Strouse wrote a letter to ASCAP correcting their mistake)and MOST of Elegance. (The first two lines are pure Merrill. The bad syntax, sloppy rhymes, etc. The rest is pure Herman. The line about the diamond Jims? Come on.)

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 8:23pm

I also heard that part of the settlement re: Sunflower was that Merrick/Herman had to pay royalties for US productions of Dolly.

Foreign rights where never serious considered.. and lo and behold! Dolly becomes this international Hit!

I probably have it wrong..but it was something along those lines.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/3/08 at 9:16pm

Yes, BFB.

Strouse's letter was NOT to ASCAP. The ASCAP credit will never change.

Strouse's letter was a handwritten, personal note to Herman.

Hell, if I had 50% of the proceeds of "Before the Parade Passes By," I'd write whatever Jerry Herman wanted on whatever bar napkin or toilet paper he handed me--clean OR dirty.

[jaystarr]

Posted: 1/4/08 at 11:11am

Who is the cute guy that looks like Ryan Philippe singing a song from Mack & Mabel at the beggining? with Jerry Herman coaching him..

J*