"On the Town" Preview Thread- Page 7

[Midevenings]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 12:05pm

Saw last night. TDF tickets in the last row in the dress circle. Very good seats.

Enjoyed the show but didn't love it. The set was so slick and shiny that if felt like I was watching a show on a cruise ship. Plus the show let out at 10:45. Way too long. The first act is 1:40.

But the whole show is worth it just for Megan Fairchild's Miss Turnstile and Coney Island dance routines.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 12:29pm

I think the change of opinion when the reviews come out has to do with herd mentality. Everyone wants to be in the "in" crowd and if it looks like the consensus is swinging one way or the other, they will follow the crowd. I had many friends who, after seeing the original Sweeney, thought it was a loud hot mess. Once it was proclaimed a masterpiece, they, too, suddenly realized it was brilliant.

I have never doubted that Chip and Hildy have sex but I certainly don't need to see Chip in his underwear to get the point. And is the point of also seeing Ozzie in his underwear that we understand Gabey is the only one who hasn't gotten laid and that somehow ups the stakes of finding Ivy? If so, no need. I get it. As Whizzer has repeatedly opined, just trust the material, it doesn't need underlining. Very much looking forward to seeing this production next month.

[GilmoreGirlO2]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 12:51pm

PalJoey, I understand and agree with everything you are saying regarding how reports of preview performances may not be very representative of the show later on and I’m certainly not arguing that point. What I took from your parallel to “Gentleman’s,” however (and what I am still seeing in your last post) is that is seems as though you are indicating the change of heart after critical reviews came out had not so much to do with the show finding its groove by opening, but more to do with the critical response it receives (as if people realize that they were “wrong” to have not liked a show after it receives great reviews). Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but it seems as though you are putting a lot of weight on those critical reviews. As if, if “On the Town” receives raves (which, I hope it does), it will invalidate anyone’s opinions who saw the show and didn’t like it (even if the show is exactly the same as they night they saw it). As if the critical reviews are the end-all, be-all and the final word on whether a show is good or not, instead of just more opinions.

In the same way that some may find what they saw onstage as sexually overt and some may not; but, it doesn’t make one of those opinions wrong. And, even if all of the reviews say it’s not sexually overt, it still doesn’t make someone who does find it so wrong.

I understand that you love this production (or, at least as it was at Barrington) and wish for everyone that they are lucky enough to experience the same thing you did sitting in the theatre (a feeling I completely understand), but, to me at least, it feels as if you are trying to invalidate any opinions that don’t coincide with your own (and you feel that if/when the critical reviews are raves, that will validate your feelings on the show and discount any others). Again, forgive me if this is completely off-base.

Also, please know that I have no opinions on the matters at hand (in terms of the sexuality, etc.), so those things aren’t tainting my view of your points. I know little about the show, but I’m hoping for it to succeed so I am able to see it in 2015.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 12:59pm

"...but, to me at least, it feels as if you are trying to invalidate any opinions that don’t coincide with your own..."

That does tend to happen 'round here.

[lovebwy]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 1:14pm

I will deliver the verdict on October 6.

[After Eight]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 1:51pm

"I had many friends who, after seeing the original Sweeney, thought it was a loud hot mess. Once it was proclaimed a masterpiece, they, too, suddenly realized it was brilliant. "

Uh, they SAID it was brilliant, since it was anything but. Too bad your friends had the backbones of jellyfish. Happily, those made of sterner stuff weren't/aren't so easily intimidated and/or duped, and continue to speak the truth.

But, Wilmingtom, you've described the intimidation/indoctrination process very accurately. That's how lies are born and subsequently perpetuated through the years. We've seen it happen time and time again. Hell, the whole Sondheim cheerleading machine is fueled on it, and continues to belch out its poisonous exhaust fumes on a daily basis.

And now our Pal Joey is doing his part with this show. Perhaps the critics will join him. But it's heartening to know that even if 99.999% of the public can be cowed into acquiescence or worse, there will be that .001 who can't.

[GoSmileLaughCryClap]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 2:09pm

"But it's heartening to know that even if 99.999% of the public can be cowed into acquiescence or worse, there will be that .001 who can't."

Well After Eighty, at least you know what percentage your opinions represent among the theatergoing public.

I think you should change your name to .001!

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 2:17pm

After Eight, I will admit that when I was young, I would sometimes change my views on something based on common opinion. It's really insecurity and a fear of, somehow, being left out. But eventually I became secure enough to stick to my guns. I liked it or didn't, period. I sense that I admire Sondheim more than do you but I'm not certain that "lies" should be equated with "opinions." I admire Pal Joey's passion for the production he saw in Barrington, whether I may or may not share his views when I see it. If you don't have strong opinions, as you always do, then nothing was important enough.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 2:18pm

"Well After Eighty, at least you know what percentage your opinions represent among the theatergoing public."

I can't tell, but are you implying that to be in the minority is to be wrong or of lesser value?

I hope not, but it is a very patriotic - I mean American - point of view.

Updated On: 9/25/14 at 02:18 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 2:30pm

Re. Sondheim, I say what 99.999% theatregoing public actually feels, (and by theatregoing public, I do not mean this board.)

What people have been initmidated/indoctrinated into stating they feel is another matter entirely.





Updated On: 9/25/14 at 02:30 PM

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 3:02pm

^ If you're insinuating that I was intimidated into adoring the score of Merrily, or Night Music, you are incorrect. I also loved the song "Don't Waste the Moon" from the original Carrie, now cut in the revisal, and believe me when I say no one intimidated me into loving it.

Not that any of this has to do with this thread and I apologize.

Updated On: 9/25/14 at 03:02 PM

[GoSmileLaughCryClap]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 3:28pm

Willmington, After Eighty has adopted an "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" conspiracy theory about the modern world. He believes that he is one of the last of the REAL BWW theater lovers who hasn't been infected.

So, the pod people are in charge of PBS and have the NY Phil on air with the execrable Sweeney Todd instead of the lovely Student Prince. And the pod people are all of the Broadway producers who won't revive the delightful Star Spangled Girl.
The Hollywood pod people have made a movie of the wretched Into the Woods.

He's working with an underground group of the uninfected who listen all day to Dear World, and communicate privately about an uprising where No, No Nanette and Forty Carats will take back Broadway, and Arlene Dahl will be on the dollar bill.

Or so I gather.

[newintown]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 3:33pm

Arlene Dahl would definitely be on much larger currency than $1.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 3:39pm

When is After Eight going to call Max to remove the dead monkey from the delapidated mansion?

[HorseTears]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 3:52pm

GoSmileLaughCryClap? I smiled, laughed and clapped. Now I'm going to go. Bravo!

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 5:03pm

I don't have anything against being old fashioned as I'm a little bit that way myself. But equating opinions with lies and indoctrination with personal taste seems like a bit much. But as Hammerstein so wisely opined, "It take all kinds of people to make up a world."

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 5:10pm

Let's get back to discussing On the Town.

How many cigarettes do you think it took to write the show?

[GoSmileLaughCryClap]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 5:21pm

It was cartons!

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 5:25pm

At least 160 a month, unless Betty smoked too.

[mjohnson2]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 6:26pm

GoSmileLaughCryClap, I certainly hope that one day there is a revival of NO NO NANETTE on Broadway, or DEAR WORLD or FORTY CARATS or THE STUDENT PRINCE or THE STAR SPANGLED GIRL, but those are extremely unlikely to ever happen, so for now we have to settle for revivals of ON THE TOWN and ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY, which, if they are both good (I still have hope) would be wonderful.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 6:33pm

Forgive me if I am misunderstanding you, but it seems as though you are putting a lot of weight on those critical reviews.

I forgive you because you are completely and entirely misunderstanding me. I'm not discussing the critic's reviews at all. I'm saying that early-preview reactions are often unreliable as indicators of a show's ultimate quality.

And then added to that is the bitterness and cynicism of the commenters who haven't seen the show, reacting negatively to a notion that often has no validity at all.

[GoSmileLaughCryClap]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 7:46pm

Prognostications regarding shows in preview is a prime component of this board. We have seen over the years a weird and unpredictable pattern that has resulted in the following outcomes.

• Preview members primarily dislike a show, and are surprised when the critical response is favorable. The minority positive members say “I told you so,” and the naysayers disappear.

• Preview members primarily like a show, and are shocked when the critical response is negative. The minority negative members say “I told you so,” but the likers don’t go away. They continue to bemoan a show’s negative outcome. The original naysayers say “get real.” When the show closes quickly the likers mourn the loss of jobs.

• Preview members all like or dislike a show, and their universal agreement is confirmed by the critical response. We all pat ourselves on the back.

Which brings us to On the Town.

A much admired regional production gets financing and makes its way to Broadway. Several regular posters love the regional production and become acolytes for the arriving show.

Then the dress rehearsal and first preview crowd chime in, and the overall response, while by no means wholly negative, is tempered. The acolytes rightfully back up their long held position that a hit is on its way. The mixed responders get more negative as they smell a defense mechanism from the likers. And this during the FIRST week of previews!

So, in the spirit of good will, and the hope that all will be bright on opening night, we trust that talented theater people are making daily and nightly tweaks and improvements, polishing even more what already shines, and perhaps disposing of a baguette.

On the Town doesn’t fit any of the three above scenarios. What this instance seems to be is:

• Members who see the regional production love the show and are elated when they learn that against all odds it will transfer to Broadway. The regular preview posters – you know who you are – have a more tempered response that while not truly negative, agitates the regional lovers.

NOW: As the previews continue, response becomes more positive or negative, Michael Reidel writes that there’s either a soon to be hit or flop, and the critics either anoint the biggest hit revival since the 1992 Guys and Dolls or the biggest flop revival since the 2009 Guys and Dolls.

This insanely overwritten post is both an apology for earlier thread jacking, and a sincere statement that not only is the jury out, there has been plenty of positive feedback to suggest that this On the Town will be more of a success than its last couple of Broadway revivals.

And be nice to Pal Joey. He’s an elder statesman around here.


Updated On: 9/25/14 at 07:46 PM

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 8:30pm

Now I'm redicent to post at all. Maybe I should just read from now on.

[GoSmileLaughCryClap]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 8:39pm

No Wilmington! The point is that it's all good, and there's at least a whiff of family on these boards.

[lovebwy]

Posted: 9/25/14 at 8:52pm

I ADORE Pal Joey. Pal Joey, I apologize about the whole Colleen Dewhurst thing. It was residual anger from my "angry young man" days and I hadn't ever stopped to consider the position she was in.

NOW, when I see On the Town in a couple of weeks I will come back here with the definitive answer like John McLaughlin does after everyone's weighed in on his show. (my tongue is planted in cheek with that last comment!)

I also just got tickets to see Andrea Martin in Pippin in Los Angeles for the first preview. Can't wait!