Papermill in Trouble - Updates- Page 2

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 12:52pm

NJ also has the The Strand and the Jersey Shore Arts Center.

But I don't know if these Theatres (and the ones you listed) have a huge impact on people buying tickets to a Papermill production. Papermill is regional theatre, and is usually of higher quality. But I don't know if ticket buyers realize that. Also a lot of people from North Jersey go to Papermill, it's not like there's tons of people coming all the way south to see a Community production at Surflight. I think theatre-goers would travel more to see a Papermill production opposed to a Community production at Surflight or The Strand. Updated On: 4/3/07 at 12:52 PM

Posted: 4/3/07 at 12:54pm

Papermill has been in trouble for a while now, so while this is bad news, it's not really new news.

Re: the odd, smaller shows they put on, a friend brought up a valid point. Being that Papermill has been struggling financially, it's more than likely that they have to elect to put on a smaller show - e.g., Harold and Maude or Romance/Romance - so that they can afford to put on the bigger shows - e.g., The Baker's Wife or PIRATES!!!!. It sucks, but it's reality.

That being said, Papermill has been really hit-or-miss for me over the past few years. They've had some wonderful productions - Baby, The Baker's Wife, Ragtime, Carnival!, even Godspell to an extent - and they've had some that I hope appealed to their customer base (i.e., the geriatric crowd), because I certainly slept through them - Hello, Dolly! off the top of my head.

If they can get a benefit together, I'll be there. It should prove to be more interesting than most of their current season.


Good luck, Papermill.

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 12:54pm

My thanks also, Jim. Audiences have little idea how many producing theaters outside of Broadway operate from "season to season" not fully sure if they will have the funding for the next round of shows. So many factor come into play to keep these folks in the black.

More and more show investors and even performers are working with hosting venues sharing the costs through co-producing and co-promting so that the risks become more managable.

I too am a great fan of the Paper Mill and saddened to hear of this dire situation. It's true that real drama in not always in front of the curtain. Here's hoping a trun about takes place for such a great cutural asset for so many years.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:07pm

Ljay- you are a bit mistaken in your info and my intent.
I never meant that Two River and Surflight were taking business away from Papermill. The Geographic location of both of these theaters in relation to Papermill would make that impossible. Also as you noted the scale and product offering of these two would make that argument ridiculous.
The Strand is similar to NJPAC in its business model, but the scale is different. They host a variety of different forms of entertainment, including but not limited to, non-eq tours, TYA, and community theatre.
Two River is an Equity theatre that produces mostly newer plays and small Musicals. In the past ten years they have gone from renting space at the Algonquin arts theater in Manasquan to now being in residence in REd bank in their own theater.
Surflight is a Non-profit Equity Summer stock. It is not a community theatre. It got a contract with Actor's Equity in 1999 .Previous to that it was a professional Non-equity summerstock theatre for 50 years.
I only was comparing the fact that these two theatres have had some major growth over the past ten years in comparison to papermill's decline. Two River built a mulit-million dollar facility in the heart of Red Bank, and Surflight has doubled its subscriber base, aquired an agreement with Actor's Equity, changed the management of the theatre from for-profit to non-profit, and is now undergoing a major renovation. The fact that these two NJ theatres have been able to do this while Papermill (The gold standard of NJ theater at one time) is unbelievable.

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:14pm

^ Ok, I was a bit mistaken. BUT don't make it sound like Surflight is ALL equity actors. There are still plenty of talented non-equity local actors performing there.


They get John Davidson each year to perform a show. Yippie Yippie!

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:27pm

Yes like most theatres in the U.S. who employ Union actors(including papermill), Surflight uses non-eq actors in its productions.
Also -the 1200 non-eq New york actors who auditioned for them last week aren't really local(unless you consider a 75 mile commute do-able)
Also John Davidson, who works at Surflight, coincidentally did a highly regarded production of Will Rogers Follies at Papermill during the hihgly successful Robert Johannson years.
To label them a community theater is a little spurious.

Updated On: 4/3/07 at 01:27 PM

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:33pm

There's also the Count Basie Theatre.

A gorgeous theatre in need of some MAJOR renovations to restore it to its former glory.

They just added all new seating and are seeking the funds to re-do the gold-leafing. Whatever idiot decided to paint over such elegant woodwork should have been fired.

The Count Basie hosts some tours, concerts, events and regional musical performances.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:39pm

I think this thread is getting into some trouble.
Let's clear somethings up-
NJPAC, The Strand, and the Count Basie are different than Papermill, Two River, and Surflight.
The first group is comprised of theaters that host product( tours, symphonies, concerts, community productions)
The second group is comprised of theatres that take on the producing responsibilities themselves. There is a big difference. It is very easy to stay solvent when you aren't assuming the majority of the risk.

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:40pm

Also -the 1200 non-eq New york actors who auditioned for them last week aren't really local

- When did I ever say the Equity actors that auditioned were local? I know Non equity performers who audition, and who are local. There are plenty of local Jersey Shore local actors that audition and perform in Surflight shows.

Do you work for Surflight? Because you sure love tooting their horn.
Updated On: 4/3/07 at 01:40 PM

[FOAnatic]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:44pm

I know the difference between the theatres you mentioned.

I was just throwing the Count Basie's name in there because it's another theatre in need of saving. Although it's situation is not near as dire as the Papermill currently.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:45pm

Yes there are Local non-eq actors who fill in the chorus and background actors for some shows, but the majority (95%)of the company is comprised of profesional out of town actors. Both Equity and Non-eq. If you knew so much about the theater, as you are now stating, it is surprising that you would have started out in this thread by labeling the productions "community". Regardless of what you think of the the quality of the productions, it is not accurate to label them "community".

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:46pm

^ Boy, you must get quite a nice paycheck from Surflight!

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:49pm

I got my start there in 1998 and have since returned to direct, write, and act for them in between other gigs. When I first mentioned them in this thread, I merely noted their growth in comparison to Papermill's. When I see mis-information, (in this or any other thread for that matter) I always corrrect it.

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:50pm

^ Well I appreciate that you acknowledged the fact you have an association with them.

[Craig]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:53pm

Well it's sad for many reasons - one of which is that the PMP was a great place and another respected venue to find WORK. The PMP has employed many a performer and has often nurtured budding talent.

[Neverandy]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 1:53pm

I have an association with Two River as well. There are many theaters in the country that I have an association with and I am in no way embarrassed to admit it. I imagine it would be quite strange for me to have so much knowledge about a theatre with which I have no association, wouldn't it?
When I mentioned the theatre I neverhad any intention of this becoming a thread about a Summer Stock Theatre on the Jersey Shore.

Updated On: 4/3/07 at 01:53 PM

[Jon]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 2:42pm

No matter how many non-equity performers you use, if you pay the actors, you are not a community theatre. Certainly, if you use even one or two equity actors, you are not a community theatre.

A community theatre is a theatre where the performers are doctors, lawyers, accountants, school teachers, etc. They rehearse a show three or four nights a week for at least two months, and then they do the show for one or two weekends.

[WestVillage]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 2:48pm

While this is very sad news, it is not surprising. I have been going to Papermill Playhouse since the late 1960's and I have a very special fondness for this theatre, as it was my introduction to "professional" theatre; I saw a Papermill show before I saw a Broadway show. However, their productions over the past several years have really been disappointing. Dolly was awful, No, No, Nanette was very amateurish, Harold & Maude was a disaster. Something about their productions just looks cheap (I guess I understand why) and the caliber is not at all what it used to be. With the exception of Follies and Baker's Wife, everything else I saw was pretty lame. Papermill also is not attracting the stars that it used to ... Ann Miller (altho she came back triumphantly in Follies), Gloria Swanson, Shelley Winters, Bernadette Peters, Betsy Palmer, Vivian Vance, Chita Rivera ... going to Papermill in its heyday was just as good as going to Broadway, but that's not the case any longer. I can completely understand why subcriptions and individual tickets sales have fallen so drastically. I don't think it has anything to do with competition from NJPAC in Newark, I just think Papermill's audiences are not liking the choices of shows, and the quality of their productions has been pretty much second-rate.

[Musical Director]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 3:49pm

I take exception that the productions looked cheap. The only shows that could possibly be said of are the shows where the sets were rented, which was not very often. I can only speak for the years that I was involved which was 1981-2000. The productions, whether you liked them or not, were anything but cheap. Shows like "Wizard of Oz", "Follies", and "Mame" cost well over a million dollars. They have such a stock of beautiful scenery that they were able to reuse things. The Paper Mill was quality all the way. Like I said, I don't know what it is like now, but then it was another matter. During my time there, the only rented sets were BARNUM, NO NO NANETTE, and ANNIE GET YOUR GUN.

[WestVillage]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 4:14pm

The quality of Papermill productions (including the sets/costumes) has deteriorated since 2000, unfortunately. Poor Dolly coming down a cheap set of stairs with one feather in her hat! In an ugly dress to boot! Hardly represented the Grand Staircase that is so indicitive of the Harmonia Gardens. I agree, years ago Papermill was wonderful, but maybe due to leadership changes, their productions have gotten pretty shabby. I hate saying that, but I've seen the old Papermill, and the current Papermill and there is a HUGE difference in the quality.

[Musical Director]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 4:55pm

I really appreciate the clarification. Robert was all about taste. DOLLY is not a show that you do on the "cheap". Once again, thanks for remembering when things were great!

Jim

[WestVillage]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 5:25pm

No matter the current state of Papermill productions, I will ALWAYS remember Papermill with great fondness and admiration. I had some absolutely thrilling evenings there that are engraved in my memory. For a while it seemed like as soon as a show closed in New York, it opened at Papermill ... Twigs, Bubbling Brown Sugar, My Daughter, Your Son, Gamma Rays, Butterflies are Free, Mame, Dolly (w/Betsy Palmer ... not the cheap production w/Tovah). Ah, those were the days.

[Musical Director]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 5:40pm

Thanks for the clarification. I really appreciate it. It's nice to know that someone remembers the days when Robert was there. He was all about taste. Thanks again,
Jim

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 5:44pm

It makes me sad that Papermill might close. While I didn't see it there, they were the first ones to present "The Wizard of Oz" which was my first theater experience. And from what I remember, I was a great production.

Sad.

[LoringsGuy]

Posted: 4/3/07 at 5:50pm

A production of MAME with Ebersole and Bishop sounds like it would be AMAZING....when was that?