"Phantom" test screening: my review- Page 7

[MeGustaJake]

Posted: 10/2/04 at 3:20am

Just thought I'd mention that I loved Nicole Kidman and Ewan McGregor in "Moulin Rouge". I feel like I have to defend them when someone mentions that their singing was "appauling" because no...it wasn't! And I liked Catherine Zeta Jone's singing voice in "Chicago", but Richard Gere and Renee Zelwegger's were pretty bad, IMO (no disrespect to either actor though...).

So if Butler sounds like McGregor, bring it on! Kidman's vocals, though beautiful, are limited and obviously someone with more experience would be needed for Christine.

[GavrocheCramer]

Posted: 10/2/04 at 10:14am

Catherine was WONDERFULL in "chicago"!!!! WONDERFULL! Her and the talented Queen Latifah do an amazing job! Richard and Renee were so, so... Oh and what I meant about nicole and ewan in Moulin Rouge... they are very, very computer edited... and it does accomplished what the director wanted... I mean nicole didn't go to a recording studio to record the vocals. They did it in a hotel room on a computer and asked her to "sing this to the tune off" and she did without any accompaniment. The orchestra was added in later in post production of the sound tracks before filming really commensed. SO... while not absolutely sounding horrid, if we were to take away the computer... her voice would fall quite flat. Ewan would probably sound alright actually. He certainly is not the best broadway singer in the world as he lacks the technical training to really acheive that... but Moulin Rouge was what it was... pop ballads strung together to form a show from remnants of popular musical culture. But I think there was so much more excitement when you almost believed the characters were singing live infront of you as in "chicago"... All that Jazz almost made me *&^$ myself when I saw it in limited release. This is the element I hope Phantom has in the film. The adrineline and excitment and quality of a broadway production captured on film (with more money and ability in the areas of setting, costumes, etc.) Sorry Jake I didn't mean to offend you. Moulin Rouge was beautiful in terms of the design aspect :) and songs like "Like a Virgin" and "The Show Must Go On" are sung well... I am not sure if he was dubbed for those songs... but it sound lovely.

[MeGustaJake]

Posted: 10/2/04 at 12:30pm

I don't mean to argue, nor do I mean to take over this thread talking about "Moulin Rouge" vs. "Chicago", but how do you know that Nicole Kidman sang into a computer in a hotel room? All of the behind the scenes footage showed her in a recording booth in a studio, and to be honest, I don't really think her voice was all that "computerized" in the first place. And no, no one (including Jim Broadbent, "Harold Zidler") was dubbed.

I don't see "Phantom" being a lot like "Chicago". "Phantom" tells a story throughout the entire piece, whereas "Chicago" interrupts scenes in order to break into song. (This isn't an attack on the film in anyway, they're both just very different styles of musicals).

EDIT: Rose there are questions on pg. 6 from both the poster above and myself Thanks...
Updated On: 10/2/04 at 12:30 PM

[captain_zahn]

Posted: 10/2/04 at 1:09pm

I don't think Renee or Richard were bad exactly. They're both kinda nasal, but I wasn't bothered by either of their singing.

[Mr. TN]

Posted: 10/2/04 at 2:41pm

Chicago is a typical American musical. Most "classic" American musicals "break" into song instead of having the songs become the dialogue, as in phantom and most operetta or pop opera. Sung-through musicals, as we like to call them, can have smoother transitions into the actual songs because there isn't a point where talking and singing cross over. No one style is better than the other. Each works effectively for what the intent of the creative team seems to be.

Also, the voice of the phantom should be a natural sound. Remember Erik is a violinist and taught himself to sing by listening to the voices of the great oprea singers above in the opera house. He should sound almost perfect, but yet untrained. In defense of Michael Crawford, I disagree that he "must have vocal folds of steel" becuase if you listen closely to his voice, his actual sound is not a strained sound. If you hear him once it sounds a bit strange but after listening to a few of his songs and albums (outside of phantom) you hear that he is technically correct in his singing. The emotional quality he gives allows his voice to sound different and unlike the legions of "cloned" singers in the world who sound the same because they are trying to mimick a "good" sound. Sarah Brightman doesn't have the nicest sounding voice either. Christine, however, is not the greatest singer. She is only a chorus girl when she begins. Which means Carlotta should have the greatest opera voice in the show. As the phantom works with her though, Christine should get better and better as the show progresses. I believe Miss Brightman does this effectively.

As for Renee and Richard, they both are good enough for what the parts are. Again Roxie isn't a star during the show. Near the end of the movie, she is rejected by the auditioners which shows that she doesn't have a knockout voice. However, she has to be "just good enough" for Velma and her to do a double act. Richard has a unique voice too. His more light tone allows gives him the light and bouncy tone that is needed to be a swindling lawyer.

Sorry for the long post. Keep up the good posting.

[Sally]

Posted: 10/2/04 at 8:08pm

<< Remember Erik is a violinist..>>

Is that in the original novel (been a long time since I read it) or just in one of the other films? I don't think it is mentioned in the ALW musical.

<< It is creepy. Micheal Crawford is a HORRIBLE singer! HORRIBLE... he has to have vocal folds of steal as he essentially is shredding his vocal folds everytime he sings.>>

You're certainly entitled to dislike his voice, but no performer who does 8 shows a week (as he did in Dance of the Vampires as long as it lasted and as he is now doing in The Woman in White in London) could be shredding his vocal folds every performance and rarely miss a show--to say nothing of the fact he's been singing professionally for umteen years (30 or 40?). Updated On: 10/2/04 at 08:08 PM

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/2/04 at 9:41pm

Okay, I'll try to answer all the new questions.

GavrocheCramer: Emmy sounds very mature. In fact, I thought she was a lot older than she is. When I learned she only just turned 18, you could have knocked me over with a feather.
Almost all of the songs are sung by the characters. I don't think any of them were done as internal monologues, but I could be wrong. My memory is good, but not miraculous!

Jake: Yeah, everyone realizes it's the Phantom pretty much right away, except Christine. I've always thought the difference in his and Piangi's build was the dead giveaway, personally. As for her being hypnotized: You know how she acts when he's singing to her (like in the title song, "Wishing", etc)? It seems to me to by some kind of hypnosis, but I didn't write the book or the play, so of course I could be wrong.

[Mr. TN]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 12:45pm

Sally:

That fact is not mentioned in the ALW musical at all, however I believe I read that in "The Complete Phantom of the Opera," a book that explains every version of the phantom and the original myth surrounding the novel. I will check if it is actually mentioned in the novel or from which storyline it is from. I do remember seeing it somewhere. And that is the thought that stuck in my head. It does say in the novel, however, that he taught himself to sing by listening to the scores of opera singers who have performed in the Paris Opera. So it may be somewhere around that. I will get back to you on the exactly where the violin comes into play. It's been years since I read the novel as well. I might as well read it again.

[MeGustaJake]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 5:23pm

Rose, we need you!!!

There are some new clips that just surfaced on the web and we have no idea whether or not its Gerry/Emmy/Patrick.

Heres the link, let us know: http://www.adambaylis.com/phantom/downloads/music/index.html

The "All I Ask of You" clip doesn't sound like Emmy or Patrick at all!

Thanks :)

[EponineThenardier]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 5:39pm

err----the clips aren't working for me

[MeGustaJake]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 5:43pm

...I don't think its them. Heres the link to the flash site directly though:
http://www.adambaylis.com/phantom/index/ - click on "music"

[EponineThenardier]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 5:55pm

now they're working. If thats Gerry than I'll be happy. :) Listening to everyone over at PhantomPhans I agree AIAOY doens't sound like Patrick and Emmy.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 6:06pm

I agree. If that is the REAL phantom I will def. be buying the soundtrack. God, I can't wait

[blueroses24]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 6:11pm

Hi,

I just checked out those clips and then went to over to phantomfans. I was SO excited, and then discovered by various people on that board that these clips....aren't them.

Now, I really didn't think that was Patrick or Emmy...but I liked that guy who sang the part of the Phantom.

I'm so miffed...and there is no "email" contact info on that page so that I can give this person a piece of my mind!

[EponineThenardier]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 6:17pm

Do we know for sure that the phantom isn't Gerry? Obviously AIAOY isn't Pat & Em.

[MeGustaJake]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 6:34pm

I'm pretty sure thats not Gerry: but maybe Rose could confirm that for us?

Someone posted at Phantomfans.net that its from the 1993 studio recording with Graham Bickley (Phantom), Claire Moore (Christine), and John Barrowman (Raoul). I'm kind of relieved: I liked the Phantom's voice, but I think Emmy sounded better than that in the rehearsel tape.

How do these compare to the film voices Rose?

[blueroses24]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 6:35pm

Someone over at Phantomfans is pretty certain that she has that Music of the Night clip and that Point of No Return. It's got to be a stage phantom...though none of us can remember who it is. I just checked my two other Phantom cds...it isn't Michael Heath or Ethan Freeman.

I'm sure Rose will tell us if this is Gerry or not. And another thing...this website is NOT the flashsite for warner brothers even though it uses the warner brothers logo. That address is totally different. Also, the entra-act music is the same from the London recording...you can tell. If you click index on that music page.

Rachel

[blueroses24]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 7:01pm

Hmmm...someone on Phantomnet said the name Graham Bickley. I used to have his recording of Phantom (another studio version with Claire) He sounds very much like that clip....just listen to his voice and compare! Try amazon!

[Mr. TN]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 8:05pm

Sally and anyone else interested:

I did my research on the book and found the point in question. The implication of Erik as a violinist is in the novel. In the novel, which I reread today (yes, it is long), Christine's father is a very good violinist ("Not a fiddler throughout the width and breadth of Scandinavia played as he did"). This is Chapter V, The Enchanted Violin. Christine's father, M. Daae, tells Raoul and her (as children) the story of how the Angel of Music comes down from heaven and blesses little children with the gift of beautiful music. This is key to the entire Angel of Music portion with the phantom. Later (in the scene where the phantom appears in the mirror in ALW's musical) Christine visits the grave of her father. Raoul follows her. They both are awe-struck, hearing beautiful music seeming to come from the grave. ("At the last stroke, I saw Mlle. Daae life{sic} her eyes to the sky and stretch out her arms as though in ecstasy. I was wondering what the reason could be, when I myself raised my head and everything within me seemed drawn toward the invisible, WHICH WAS PLAYING THE MOST PERFECT MUSIC! Christine and I knew that music; we had heard it as children. But it had never been executed with such divine art, even by M. Daae. I remembered all that Christine had told me of the Angel of Music. The air was The Resurrection of Lazarus, which old M. Daae used to play to us in his hours of melancholy and of faith. If Christine's Angel had existed, he could not have played better,that night, on the late musician's violin.") After this lengthy description, Raoul states that he saw a shadow in the darkness. He chases it and manages to grab only a piece of its cloak. Hence we "see" that it was the phantom playing the music in the graveyard, since the cloak is ultimately associated with the phantom. This is a similar scene to the graveyard scene ("Wishing You Were.." and reprise of "Angel of Music") in ACT II of the musical. If you listen to track 5 on disk two of the Original Cast Recording you will hear that a violin plays the "Angel of Music" melody. This is a "make-up" for cutting the first scene where Erik plays. He is not shown as playing in the musical. However, you can make that connection if you know the novel. It really isn't necessary to the main plot of the story at that point but it would be really nice to show.

I've read a few scholarly papers that have stated that the reason for Erik being a violinist is to create a special bond between he and Christine since her beloved father was also a violinist. In this way, it draws Christine closer to the phantom and creates common ground. Erik learned the violin, according to most scholars, because he could play music as a child without people having to see his face. It was the only thing he could do as a deformed child.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to make sure I explained where I got that from. Plus, I'm a violinist by trade so I'm just a little bias. And it may be an incentive for more people to pick up the book, which contains many more little subtext stories and underlying tones that could make your understanding of the musical (and in the future, movie) better. Thanks for reading if you made it this far.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 8:09pm

Thanks for that Mr. TN. You know, to be perfectly honest........I have never read the book. Seen all the Hollywood movies and have both the ALW version and the other one on CD, but never read the book. I am ashamed at myself

[zepka102]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 8:13pm

AS YOU SHOULD BE SPIDER!!!


haha jk... i read it back in 6th grade which was what... 10 years ago... i think i need to go back and read it when i have free time... which might be in about a year...

[Sally]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 8:47pm

I guess we will have to wait for Rose to have a listen to see if she recognizes the voices. I don't know. If you click back to "home" or whatever the only other page on the site with the sound clips is, you get a blank, black page with what sounds like the overature playing. At the bottom of the page, it says,

"Images © Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc.
Site Design © Baylis 2004.
This motion picture is not associated with The Baylis Company ltd"

The sound clips site looks like the Warner Bros. site but isn't a part of it---very puzzling.

Thanks for the quick research on the violin. I was sure it wasn't in the musical but couldn't remember about the book.

[MeGustaJake]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 8:58pm

If you go to:

http://www.bizrate.com/marketplace/product_info/overview/index__cat_id--5231,prod_id--1001639.html

you can listen to the clips of the 1993 cast. If you listen to "Point of No Return", you'll notice its the same as whats on the site. So no, it isn't Gerry, Emmy, or Patrick.

[Mr. TN]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 8:58pm

No problem with the research. Any other questions? I can answer them while the book is fresh in my head. It would be good idea to reread the book at least once a year because it is long and full of little bits of information that get lost very quickly. And for those who haven't read it, please do. It's a great book and should be on the classics list but sadly is missing.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/3/04 at 10:59pm

I can't get the links to work. But based on what Jake said, they're probably not the movie cast. Hope that helps, guys!