Piazza Takes the Tonys, but Will It Last?- Page 2

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:04pm

again - there is no reason to be insulting. I'm not - I'm just trying to have a reasonable discussion about varying tastes in musical theatre.

I don't mind theatre that is a little more high-brow than say Spamalot, but I prefer it when it says something. Piazza is high-brow for the sake of being high-brow. It says nothing.

A girl gets kicked in the head by a mule and falls magically in love with a man that mentally is old enough to be her father. Oh yes, more stories like these please!

[MusicMan]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:04pm

That's exactly Chitown's point. They are oddball shows that only communicate to a fragmented audience rather than cutting across all demographics.

[LucilleAndLeoFrank]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:04pm

Perfectly said, LittleFish.

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:05pm

God, I hope so.

[Mr. Tuttle]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:07pm

That's it..put some flyin monkeeyys in dat show!

Monkeys In The Piazza!

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:09pm

Tuttle - I'm glad to see that you're completely incapable of having an intelligent debate.

Frankly - I'd rather discuss why you feel so strongly in this show, rather than read your insults.

[Marquise]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:12pm

"A girl gets kicked in the head by a mule and falls magically in love with a man that mentally is old enough to be her father. Oh yes, more stories like these please!

oh gee...chitown, you're soooooo friggin' witty! NOT!
what a "simple" little summary....

[MusicMan]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:12pm

ECONOMIC CONSIDERATIONS ASIDE (AND THEY ARE SUBSTANTIAL), THE PRACTITIONERS OF MUSICAL THEATRE, AS IS TRUE IN MANY OTHER AREAS OF THE ARTS, HAVE ESSENTIALLY SUFFERED A CRISIS OF SELF-CONFIDENCE. THE MUSICAL HAS TAKEN ENORMOUS STRIDES DURING THE LAST THIRTY YEARS, ADVANCING THE RANGE OF ITS SUBJECT MATTER, STAGECRAFT AND NARRATIVE TECHNIQUES. MANY EXCITING INNOVATIONS RESULTED FROM THE PIONEERING EFFORTS OF THE CONCEPT MUSICAL. BUT SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, ITS CREATORS SUCCUMBED TO THE SELF-CONSCIOUS, POSTMODERN MALAISE THAT PLAGUES SO MUCH OF TWENTIETH-CENTURY ART: ONLY AMBIVALENCE, CYNICISM, DESPAIR, IRONY, EMOTIONAL OPACITY, DIFFICULTY, INACCESSIBILTY, GROTESQUERIE, ETC. HAVE MEANING OR VALIDITY, THUS ROBBING THE MUSICAL OF ITS JOY, POETRY, PATHOS, ROMANCE, HUMOR AND VARIETY. SONDHEIM, A POLEMICIST WHO ARGUED THE SERIOUSNESS OF HIS CRAFT AS MUCH AS RICHARD WAGNER DID HIS, SPAWNED A WHOLE GENERATION OF WANNA-BES WHO, THOUGH AMBITIOUS, HAD LITTLE OF THE CRAFT, TALENT AND THEATRE SMARTS (NOT TO MENTION COLLABORATORS) OF THE MASTER AND TOOK UP THE WEIGHTY, NOUVEAU-ARTY APPROACH TO WRITING SHOWS, MOSTLY WITH GRIM RESULTS. WHEREAS THE BEST MUSICALS OF THE PAST, THOSE THAT COMBINED ENTERTAINMENT WITH AN IDEA, WERE CREATED WITH THE MIDDLEBROW (I USE THE WORD AFFIRMATIVELY) AUDIENCE IN MIND, THE NEWER SHOWS PLACED A GREATER VALUE ON THE OVERINTELLECTUALIZED IDEA AND THE WRITERS' SELF-EXPRESSION THAN AUDIENCE IDENTIFICATION AND ENJOYMENT. SUDDENLY, THE NOTION THAT THE SERIOUS MUSICAL WAS "TOO GOOD FOR THE AVERAGE MAN" BEGAN APPEARING IN INTERVIEWS WITH MUSICAL THEATRE WRITERS IN THE NEW YORK TIMES AND THE AUDIENCE WAS OFFICIALLY DEMONIZED AS THE UNCOMPREHENDING ENEMY, A STUNNING IRONY CONSIDERING THE MUSICAL'S DEMOCRATIC UNDERPINNINGS. IS IT ANY WONDER THAT AUDIENCES HAVE TAKEN REFUGE IN SUCH CONFECTIONS AS CRAZY FOR YOU, THE PRODUCERS, MAMMA MIA OR THE DISNEY SHOWS WHILE THE SERIOUS MUSICAL HAS ESSENTIALLY REACHED A DEAD END? BROADWAY HAS ALWAYS BEEN A POPULIST MARKET. I TRULY BELIEVE THERE WILL ALWAYS BE AN AUDIENCE FOR SHOWS THAT CELEBRATE OUR HUMANITY WITH FEELING AND INTELLIGENCE, THAT ACKNOWLEDGE THE DARKER SIDE OF LIFE, BUT RECOGNIZE ITS JOY AND BEAUTY AS WELL. AS FELLINI SAID: "BEING A WRITER MYSELF, I WAS INTERESTED IN MOTION PICTURES PRECISELY BECAUSE IT WAS A POPULAR MEDIUM. TO MAKE AN INTERESTING PICTURE FOR A FEW PEOPLE IS RELATIVELY EASY. TO MAKE A BAD PICTURE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE IS VERY EASY. THE GREAT THING, THE GREAT PROBLEM, AND THE MOST INTERESTING AND NEW APPROACH IN ART, IS TO TRY AND MAKE GREAT THINGS FOR THE GREATEST AMOUNT OF PEOPLE. THAT'S THE SOLUTION CHAPLIN FOUND. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A NEW CHAPLIN TODAY. AND NOT NEW, YOUNG DIRECTORS WHO JUST WANT TO BE INTERESTING FOR CRITICS." AMEN, FEDERICO.

[Marquise]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:14pm

ugh i hate post in all caps. and that one induced a major headache.

[Thenardier]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:15pm

Not only the CAPS - but also there are no paragraph spaces....ER

I won't even read it.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:19pm

That's my Microsoft Copy/Paste feature for you.
Updated On: 6/6/05 at 12:19 PM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:22pm

"A girl gets kicked in the head by a mule and falls magically in love with a man that mentally is old enough to be her father. Oh yes, more stories like these please!"

Chitown this is exactly why people think you didn't get it. Ummm last time I checked, Fabrizzio was 20 and has the mind of a 20 year old. Clara's mental state is halted at 12 a difference of 8 years. At any rate, that's not what Piazza's about at all. The story is Margaret's and how she deals with her changing daughter. IT's about how she learns to let go and how she still hopes her daughter can find what she hasn't. True Love.


And I reiterate, there needs to be theatre of all kind. I love this piece and many people do. To say it doesn't say something is ok for you, but for MANY people the story has said quite a bit. I'm still floored by you're "For the sake of theatre close this show" statement. THAT's rude and rather ill-informed (seeing as how you don't really get the show). I'd say understand it first, then make judgements. Artists don't sit down and say, I want this to be artsy. Have you ever considered that maybe it's just how Guettel writes? It might just be him? Maybe HE's artsy? Sondheim said that Merrily was is hardest score because it's SOOOO difficult for him to write a 32 bar song. It's easier to write Passion. Some people are just naturally more artsy and out of the box thinkers. Guess what? That should be ok.
Updated On: 6/6/05 at 12:22 PM

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:26pm

Actually - I know Adam - he's not that artsy - rather, he is VERY down to earth.

And of course I was being 'basic' in my re-cap. I get the story, trust me. I just don't think it says anything...

[LittleFish8386]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:28pm

You know Adam, and you talk about his work in such a manner? Tsk tsk. Adam has fantastic friends!

[Avigdor]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:30pm

chitown..i think you have two different subject clearly butting heads here. one being the staying power and the other being your critique of the Piazza Material...i dont think one need be interdependent on the other. in many ways the staying power of mega musicals inspired the audience to be lazy and expect nothing more than the cookie cutter itself...do you see my point.

[Thenardier]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:30pm

May we all be so blessed!

[leomaxfrank]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:30pm

Well said Jazzy. I hope this discussion continues. I have yet to see Piazza (going in 3 weeks).

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:30pm

Listen - I have many FANTASTIC friends who's work I don't like. But if you're paying attention to my earlier posts, you'll realize that as a separate entity, I find Adam's work to be lovely - for me, it's just not suitable for the musical theatre.

Now Lucas's book?....dreadful.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:31pm

I was talking about Adam's work, not his personality firstly. Secondly, I didn't think you're 'basic re-cap' made sense or was very fair. It's fine you don't think it said anything, but like I said people disagree. I was more interested in your actually response to what I posted.

[Mr. Tuttle]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:32pm

Hi Chi...good to hear from you! I am very capable of having an intelligent conversation. Unfortunately, it takes two.

Let's look at your intellectual comments. Class..let's all look at the intelligence here:

"The lyrics are ridiculous in many places.."
* Wow..you summed that up beautifully. No need to elobrate. Cause it's very obvious.

"the story is trite (and oddly creepy)..."
* Wow..yet again..you've said it all so clearly.

"the book is just tragic (though what do we expect from the mediocre talent that brought us such gems as Prelude to a Kiss?)"
* Wow. That was the best use of an adjective I've ever see! I'm glad you didn't delute the power of your statement with other words.

With the intellgence in this matter that you have demonsrated, you are correct...I am unable to have a discussion with you.

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:33pm

actually, you make a fine point...and I agree with it on the whole. I'm not a fan of the 'cookie-cutter' musical either. I just think Piazza missed the mark. I guess my biggest fear is that because it strayed at all from the 'cookie-cutter' piece, it will inspire more bland theatre.

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:36pm

You just take personal stabs Tuttle...I'm not doing that. Why so hateful?

[chitown]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:38pm

and p.s. - I'm assuming that we are all familiar with the structure of a show, so I didn't think I needed to spell it out for you. Unfortunately, it seems as though you need to put people down in order to feel like the superior being I'm certain you are. Congratulations.

[Thenardier]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:38pm

The book isn't that great - OK.

But the story isn't as important as the emotion.

I think the major problem you are hvaing is that the main character (Margaret) isn't the main part of the plot (Clara). Instead, it's Margaret's actions and emotions that reallly drive Clara.

*That's from your point of view, saying the story is as trite as a grl being kicked in the head.

Updated On: 6/6/05 at 12:38 PM

[Mr. Tuttle]

Posted: 6/6/05 at 12:44pm

Chi..you've come here making claims. Then you claim no one is discussing this an "intelligently" as you. Then you are proven wrong.

And then you whine.