RENT is not a "Watershed" musical... — Page 3

I didn't say the character's i said there was something in there which affected everyone.

That could be knowing someone who has died from Aids or dealing with living with HIV yourselves, maybe poverty, struggling to be accepted, dealing with Death, Dealing with Life etc etc etc

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Once again TDH. Your doing an AMAZING job of proving my point.

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"doesn't EVERYONE technically deal with life? I mean.... I get what you're saying but stick to the whole homosexuality/poverty/AIDS theme. the other themes are common in almost every show and don't hold much significance."

But dude, what are you trying to prove? In every piece of art in th world, every theme has been discussed before. Spring Awakening took people by surprise by it's themes, but was that the first time that people were discussed sex, homosexuality, botched abortions or masturbated on stage? Probably not. But it still sticks with people, and that's what's important. If the art sticks with people and moves people, then it becomes a landmark.

Everything is always going to be a version of something else.

Well, this thread has pretty much disintegrated into "I hate Rent, so it is awful, overated, and a waste of time" or "I love Rent, so it is the most important piece of art ever created" Either reactions are extreme and ridiculous. People have a tendency to confuse their own personal opinions with facts.

Rent is what it is. When it opened back in 1996, it was hailed as groundbreaking, refreshing, authentic, and of the moment. Now it is familiar and comfortable. Who knows what people will see it as 10 years from now.

We're also forgetting that there is a key difference in definition between "watershed" and "ground-breaking".
The former implies a division between two phases or periods (in this case, time) while the latter implies literally the breaking of new ground or the creation of something utterly new.
Very few pieces of art actually break new ground.

If we go by strict definition, then Rent is most definitely a watershed piece. It brought about (or at least marked) a reinvigoration of broadway via a new, younger crowd. It changed the demographic by giving ownership of the broadway musical to younger people. And even if you don't credit it with bringing about the specific change, you can at least see that it stood as a representation of that change for a great many people.

This in-and-of-itself is major and deserves a mark in history. Watershed pieces indicate subtle and sometimes not-so-subtle changes in theater's movement. That shouldn't be discounted.

However, to say that it is ground-breaking isn't true - again, by definition.

Rent is based on various sources (Scenes de la Vie de Boheme, La Boheme, and La Vie Boheme) all of which dealt with very controversial subjects, for the time. Those stories were written in the 1800s and dealt with illness, poverty, art, and a lifestyle that was considered controvertial at the time.
Rent is merely an updated version of these very stories and themes. This, by definition, takes it out of the running for being ground-breaking, at least with regards to subject matter. That leaves us with its music and while I realize it was "new" as compared to other shows on b-way, it was by no means ground-breaking in the greater scheme of things. Contemporary music in a musical is a well-worn concept.

Likewise, Spring Awakening, which is considered by some to be "ground-breaking" is based on a book written in 1891. So, the only thing that could be considered ground-breaking in the show is the music, which is really just a new rock musical.

Again, none of this lessens Rent's impact...it just makes the concession that Rent was not anything substantially new.
But it was new for those who were being exposed to those themes for the first time.

I really like Rent, myself. I had the original cast recording sent to my place the day it was released. I was one of the kids who listened to it until I had every note memorized. This piece meant the world to me but it wasn't anything shockingly new. It was just a fresh take on an old theme and it spoke to me.

while every one of them struggle to make ends meat (maybe not Joanne, they don't really get into it.)

What kind of meat? Chicken? Hamburger?

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Emcee, please, it's a figure of speach, and if you're going to be a smartass to someone on your side, next time I won't bother trying to point out why I think you're right.

Lighten up, I was just making a joke!

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Updated On: 5/2/09 at 05:06 PM

If RENT is watershed for it's getting young people into theatres then we would have to give the same honor to that of shows like Wicked and Cats both of which, at the time , tapped into a younger audiance. If that's the only requirement to be watershed then there are ALOT more then we thought. All three shows have now had their spawns: Wicked most likley helped to give birth to Legally Bolonde and Cats gave rise to a host of lavish spectacles.

Many other shows have had lines down the street for things like The Producers, but why is RENT special?

I have no great love nor hate for them piece, but I'm not sure, asside from updating the look of broadway and have been popular, that it has changed the way broadway works.

Well, in a sense that was my point. Being original isn't always necessary for art. Much of what we consider to be quality isn't ground-breaking and that fact shouldn't matter.
As for definitions..."ground-breaking" pretty clearly defines itself without any help. I don't think semantics play into it all that much. How else can you read into "ground-breaking"? You are literally breaking new ground and thus doing something completely new.

As for Star Wars - I don't think that the inovation in that piece was ever meant to be derived from its being a movie in and of itself...or a science fiction movie, for that matter. Making a movie will obviously never be considered ground-breaking by itself. The time for that passed when the first film was made.
It was innovations in special affects, the use of epic story telling in outerspace, the use of episodic story telling in a major movie in the way that star wars did it, and even the reassertion of classical scoring that made it ground-breaking. Those had never been done to that scale in film before. They redefined the landscape and thus the movie was ground-breaking. You're right though...this doesn't tie into Rents. It's just that I would consider Star Wars ground breaking while I would not consider Rent to be so.

My point is...Well Duh! Rent might not be brand new, but that doesn't make it any less important. Your argument for semantics kind of goes along with what I was saying. Very little is brand new and that's quite alright as long as innovation in presentation continues.

on an aside note... am I totally lame that I have never seen any of the Star Wars movies?

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Maybe Andrewcomp actually thought the expression was "Making ends MEAT."