RENT is not a "Watershed" musical...- Page 4

[jrb]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 5:40pm

Of course some of Rent's wild fame was due to Larson's passing. Public interest was fueled by the tragedy.
Would it have been nearly as popular had Larson survived, or would it have been considered one of his early, less mature works?
As much as I loved it, there are major holes and weaknesses.
I think part of its mark in history will come from the fact that its writer was due to carry on the Sondheim torch. Larson was the hope for B-way and his death (martyrdom) ensured Rent's legacy.
I say all of this with utmost respect. I would have loved to have seen what else he would have come up with...and even a later draft of Rent itself.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 5:53pm

What we are losing sight of in this discussion, which is deteriorating into a RENT hate vs. RENT love feud, is the definition of "watershed".

The definition provided by TDH: "...a "watershed" musical is a musical that alters and affects the shape/form of musical theatre (or Broadway)."

I say RENT did not. It expanded on themes, styles, etc. brought forth by other pieces of musical theatre (namely HAIR). Was it wildly successful in doing so? Yes, and for that it should be lauded. But being wildly successful and expanding on previous achievements don't mean it changed Broadway as of now. Broadway, right now, is following a trend of recognizable commodity... due in part to shows like MAMMA MIA!, THE PRODUCERS, and HAIRSPRAY. Not RENT. Sure, occasionally something weird wanders over from off-Broadway and finds success like RENT did. But that's been the case for years. RENT didn't open the door for unconventional mainstream Broadway shows.

[andrewcomp]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 5:55pm

I'm not going to lie. I did.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 6:21pm

Updated On: 5/2/09 at 06:21 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 7:10pm

What we are losing sight of in this discussion, which is deteriorating into a RENT hate vs. RENT love feud, is the definition of "watershed".

The definition provided by TDH: "...a "watershed" musical is a musical that alters and affects the shape/form of musical theatre (or Broadway)."

Well, the problem is that the definition is leading. That's his definition of a watershed musical so that he can prove his point.

jrb's definition was: "The former implies a division between two phases or periods (in this case, time)".

That is the more accurate definition of a watershed.

Unless we are all supposed to trust TooDarnHot (...no comment) and accept his biased explanation as the absolute truth, of course we've lost sight of his definition, because many disagree with it.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 7:15pm

I absolutely love how Mimi survives in the musical but dies in the opera when really she had a greater chance of survival in the opera (opera Mimi hadn't been living on the street for a year without medication).

[winston89]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 7:25pm

orangeskittles, I do agree with you. I think the problem with this thread is that TDH gave us all his own definition of the word to fit what he was looking for.

I feel that this goes back to what I said to TDH earlier in the thread. That he set up this thread to attack those who disagree with him. And, to find people that agree with him.

Like I said earlier. He could have set it up by saying "this is how I feel about Rent, is there anyone else out there who agrees with me?" Instead, he set it up by saying "This is why Rent isn't a watershed musical. If you don't agree then you are wrong."

[TooDarnHot]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 7:33pm

Winston - where the hell are you getting all of that from???

Alright. Enough with the childish conspiracy theories... head back to school, love.

Seriously though. I don't need to set up a thread to bash RENT. thanks to you and Coooolkid, it's not hard to find chances. I simply thought it was absolutely ridiculous that RENT was being praised as "revolutionary" and "groundbreaking" in another thread.

Kad hits the nail on the head. Winston... stop just agreeing. How about coming up with your OWN valid opinion? and something legit, please.

OrangeSkitbitch! the correct defintion, for your information, of a "Watershed" Musical --- A piece of theatre marking a turning point in the course of history.

Now I ask again: did RENT really do this??? And let's get some fresh faces up in here. Not the same old rent freaks who scramble to defend this mediocre snore at every second (although Emcee made some wonderfully valid points that I respect).

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 7:33pm

SporkGoddess, Mimi had been living on the street for a few weeks, not a year. She left after Halloween and they found her December 24th.

[LePetiteFromage]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 7:35pm

Updated On: 5/2/09 at 07:35 PM

[winston89]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 8:05pm

TDH. Go F*CK yourself.

The one time I did add something of my own and didn't just say I agree with someone you still bashed me.

I am convinced of one thing. That what I said was right about you creating this thread just to find people who agree with you. And, that your the biggest tool I have ever met.

[TooDarnHot]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 8:51pm

"your the biggest tool"

YOU'RE. dumbass. YOU'RE.

go back to school!

[AdamIsGodImJesus]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 9:03pm

"Was it wildly successful in doing so? Yes, and for that it should be lauded. But being wildly successful and expanding on previous achievements don't mean it changed Broadway as of now."

And this is where I completely disagree with Kad, because RENT had the push and the publicity behind it. Yes, it expanded on previous achievements, so I guess in that case it's not "ground-breaking," but it became a musical theater behemoth and even if it wasn't the first rock opera or the first AIDS musical, it had the power behind it to bring the issues to a full light and to really show that a rock musical on Broadway can be extremely, extremely successful.

And that's how it changed Broadway. Because an un-traditional show can become very, very successful and it spawned many that tried to echo that. I don't think they were trying to be RENT per se, but they were something different.

But this thread needs to be laid to rest, because nobody will give in to the other's.

[winston89]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 9:05pm

Too Darn Hot, Eat SH*T and die you worthless bastard.

[Yero my Hero]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 9:19pm

Notice he can spell those words.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 10:13pm

Oh... I had the timeline screwed up. Still, October to December's a pretty long time to be without shelter or medication if your immune system's already compromised.

[DurtyCurty]

Posted: 8/18/08 at 11:38pm

Mimi's moments leading up to the finale are never specified. Other than the fact that Maureen and Joanne feel that she has been living on the street, and consenquently needs some heat.

Anyway back to the subject at hand. In college I once did a paper on this very subject. I would have to agree that RENT isn't a "Watershed Musical". Everyone thought it was going to be, but musical theatre contiued in the same trends as before RENT, perhaps that is why RENT is special, because it wasn't copied by every producer looking for the next big thing (ala jukebox, or Movie Musicals).

Personly I am indebted to RENT for introducing me to the wonderful world of the musical. I still love it after all these years despite all of its flaws, but I must admit it didn't change the world of theater. It didn't do much that hadn't been done before. But if it wasn't a "Watershed" for the world at least it was a "Watershed" for me, and I think I have that in common with a lot of people.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 8/19/08 at 12:03am

Rent was a lightening strike. A mediocre show that hit at the right time and place and struck a chord. As I and others mentioned before, adding the fact that Larsen died when he did propelled it into the mythic realm. It was a safe and cleaned up look at a devastating epidemic and a homage to whining entitlement (oooops my dislike seeped in)
Successful? Hell yeah. Changing the face of American Musical Theatre? Hardly, other then producers possibly becoming aware once again that "Little Shows" can be hits too.
I may not have cared for it much but many people did and do. Good for them and good for Rent.

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 8/19/08 at 1:37am

winston89, you make me laugh.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/19/08 at 2:21am

Haha, SNAFU, I completely agree with you. Including the entitlement remark that slipped in.

[GatorNY]

Posted: 8/19/08 at 10:03am

The show has always had its fans and it detractors. I was living in DC when it started its run downtown. I remember reading about it in the Washington Post(and I am paraphrasing) and the article saying something about a "hot ticket" that everyone wanted to go see in NY, and that this was the next generation's HAIR...etc. I was curious and a friend was able to get tickets for Pride weekend of 2006. I, like many other people found it to be very "life changing"- but for ME, not necessarily for everyone. At that point in my life, I needed to learn that there was no day but today and to forget regret...or I'd miss out on my life. I think that those of us who had THAT kind of experience feel a lot of love for the show. Other people, many who are on these boards...I know for SURE are much more objective about the show than I am. The show did not have that effect on them and that's fine. So perhaps the emotions that the show's fans feel tend to color our impressions and views about what kind of lasting impact this show will have on musical theater in general. It’s like any person that you love and care for…including ourselves.
We all hope that we, or our loved ones are able to leave our mark on our own particular corner of the world. Whether it is art, or sports, or medicine etc …is irrelevant. However, what is relevant is if we were able to change the world for the better, by virtue of being a part of it…
BTW….someone should write a show about the drama and conflict between Winston and TDH.

[jrb]

Posted: 8/19/08 at 11:00am

Best post of this thread. Dead on GatorNY.
I had school notebooks filled with hundreds of renderings of, "No day but today". It hit me despite any flaws.
Now, I'm a little less freakishly obsessed. I respect the show and enjoy it, but am far less a fan of the actual production than I was of the overall concept back when I was 14.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/19/08 at 12:15pm

You should have seen my notebook when we were learning about HIV in my freshman health class!

I admit that I was obsessed with RENT for about a year. Then I burnt out on it.