Ragtime book vs. musical- Page 2

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/9/04 at 11:39pm

"Poor young rich boy, masturbates for a vaudeville tart, what a waste of a fiery heart..." The line is from The Night That Goldman Spoke at Union Square.

Oh, I think it's such a myth that the book is almost impossible to adapt! The 1970s screenwriters just weren't trying hard enough. It is completely doable in the right medium. MINISERIES, I say! Updated On: 12/9/04 at 11:39 PM

[marincrazy11]

Posted: 12/9/04 at 11:43pm

Sally-You have to listen to the music. It's stupendous! I can't even begin to express how much I LOVE this show, so I won't dare try.

Posted: 12/10/04 at 12:33am

Myth or not, it's not just the scope. I think much of it is suited more to theatre than film--McNally had the characters often refer to themselves in the 3rd persona nd adress the audience which kind ahelped deal with the fact th enovel is written with no real dialogue, etc. That's what makes it hard.

A miniseries could work though

E

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 12:42am

For me the really cinematic quality about the novel is conspicuous: One of the main subplots involves a woman who will capitalize off of turn of the century sex mores to become a notorious movie star, another involves an immigrant who becomes a filmmaker and a third (if you read between the lines) is about a man who provides music for silent films.

I do think it's difficult to adapt into a two-hour feature film. On the other hand, the novel doesn't exactly have very little dialogue. It's just not in quotes. There are many moments in which the narrator tells us what one character said to another. (what immediately comes to my mind is Grandfather sitting down with The Little Boy to tell him his memories of antebellum America and John Brown)

Posted: 12/10/04 at 12:48am

Agreedon the missed cinematic bits (tho' I do like a lot of Forman's film's on its own terms) But I stand by no dialogue. It's done in such a way that you can't merely add quotes and make the exposition into dialogue. It's a style--and I think McNally admirably adapted around it with his 3rd person technique.

I saw Ragtime in its Vancouver production (which I think moved to LA, or moved from LA--LaChanze played Sarah wonderfully) and it was one of the best nights in the theatre I've had so I'm biased.

E

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 1:01am

I love the third-person technique as well. Unfortunately, I think that's also what will keep Ragtime the musical from adaptation as a film for a long time. Perhaps that's for the best? However, I would at least like to see a slick recording of the stage production.

Forman's film has an amazing score by Randy Newman and some touching moments, but I'm happy that Doctorow and others don't want him to have the last word on the material. Visually, it lends itself well to modern cinematography and could easily win several Emmys if made today with the look of HBO's Carnival (except set in turn of the century New York). The Forman film reeks of Reagan-era blahness. I think it should have either been made hot off the heels of the novel's 1975 publication or twenty years later.

[Kimsus123]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 12:40pm

you should DEFINITELY listen to the music.. its absolutely AMAZING... if you have never heard "Your daddy's son" then you are totally missing out.. i cry almost every time i hear it and i have heard it MANYY times hahah

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 2:35pm

"'Poor young rich boy, masturbates for a vaudeville tart, what a waste of a fiery heart...' The line is from The Night That Goldman Spoke at Union Square."

One of the numerous weak moments in the musical's book that refer to something in the novel, yet provides no explanation in the show. How would Emma know anything about him? In the musical, it is their first encounter, yet in the novel, masturbation is how they meet. Another is when the boy shouts "Warn the Duke!" at Houdini during the opening without ever explaining Houdini's ties with Archduke Ferdinand and his encounter with the family. I was really shocked at the gaping holes and unexplained inside references to the novel when I saw the show and was surprised that no one ever mentioned them.

Updated On: 12/10/04 at 02:35 PM

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 2:43pm

Matt, interesting comments but those holes were definitely filled. Emma Goldman's calling attention to Younger Brother's masturbation is, in the context of the musical, something that he only thought he heard her say. Houdini's ties with Ferdinand are explained in the epilogue.

[Kimsus123]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 2:46pm

I'm beginning to get really excited to get to the end of chapter 8... :)

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 3:11pm

I don't remember Houdini's ties with Ferdinand being explained when I saw the show, but it seems a bit like a copout to just stick it in the epilogue. As for the masturbation bit, it still doesn't really make much sense in the musical. I guess if you never read the book, it's ok, but it sounds like a deliberate reference, but improperly used. I loved the score, but found the book for the musical (as well as the staging) incredibly frustrating.

[Loge]

Posted: 12/10/04 at 4:00pm

I LOVE Ragtime. It is SO good! A friend of mine, who doesn't like it, calls it "Gagtime"! :|

And there 94 years to go!

[AuBrie]

Posted: 12/11/04 at 5:26am

I think that Evelyn Nesbit is such an interesting character with her obsession with tateh and his daughter and her relationship to Emma. Although Ragtime is one of my favorite plays I was sad about the adaptation of Evelyn. Congrats on getting the part! Read the book if only because it is a great read.

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/11/04 at 6:09am

I'm watching the Original Broadway Production of the musical right now. Apparently, the Little Boy's clairvoyance isn't explained until the epilogue because even he doesn't understand its origins. He can only answer with "I don't know" when Mother asks him why he's saying "warn the duke," "we'll know those people some day," etc.

Anyway, I had read the book once before seeing the musical -- and I still wasn't disappointed. I was impressed by how much they managed to incorporate into two acts. But I can understand why you and others would be disappointed... it's been almost thirty years since the novel was published, and quite a few interesting subplots still have never been fully presented in adaptations! I would like to see the Freud and Lavinia Thumb characters finally portrayed.

[RagtimeRay]

Posted: 12/11/04 at 11:51am

As my screen name suggests, I am a fan of RAGTIME. A friend who had seen the musical gave me a copy of the book, saying, "You need to read this." He told me about the musical that was in Toronto at the time and would be heading for Broadway. I read the book and my reaction was - How could they possibly turn this into a musical? Then I got to hear the "Songs of Ragtime" CD and began to see the craft in Terrance McNally's book. I saw Ragtime on Broadway (during previews - a week before its official opening) and was blown away by the experience. It remains my favorite musical and I was fortunate to see the closing B'way performance, though I wish it had not closed.

[Kimsus123]

Posted: 12/11/04 at 4:15pm

thank you soo much for everyone's feedback! I am really excited to read the book now and am SOOO excited to start rehearsals (which don't start until March.. ughhh..) but you have all been a great help!
:)
Kim

[chinkie azn jai]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 3:47pm

"At this moment a hoarse unearthly cry issued from the walls.."

"...traced the air like bullets and then settled slowly over Evelyn in her bed like falling ticker tape."

HAHA I just read that when I was reading in church...I almost burst out laughing. That's one of the best parts of the book so far (I'm on chapter 11).

[SallyBrown]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 3:50pm

heyy what were you doing reading in church? hmm? HMM!

ok anyhoo

I finished the book like 2 days ago, it's def. one of my favorite books now

[EvelynNesbit1906]

Posted: 12/19/04 at 5:20pm

I just finished reading it again as well. Fourth-time freshness indeed. And note that well over a hundred pages pass before Coalhouse even appears. Tsk, tsk, time for someone to make an accurate adaptation of Ragtime!