Randy Jackson bashes musicals and showtunes...- Page 2

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 2:47pm

Happily, I finally broke the AI habit a couple of years ago. But it used to be that when Cowell or Jackson used terms like "musical theater", "Broadway", or "cabaret", what they really meant was that the performer in question had picked up bad, summer-stock performing habits. (Exhibit A: Clay Aiken.) That the singer was performing the song in a highly technical and self-conscious way: i.e., lots of jazz hands.

I don't think Cowell or Jackson have to love Broadway musicals, but as supposed industry experts, they ought to know the difference between the genre itself and amateur approaches to performing the genre.

But Simon Cowell is a music industry "expert" the way Colonel Sanders is a fine, French chef. (Yes, I do realize they are both fictional characters.)

[newintown]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 3:23pm

"...when Cowell or Jackson used terms like "musical theater", "Broadway", or "cabaret", what they really meant was that the performer in question had picked up bad, summer-stock performing habits. That the singer was performing the song in a highly technical and self-conscious way..."

Oh, I think the standard poses of "rock" performers are as technical and self-conscious as anything to which you might be referring. Stock things like a Mick strut, tossing the hair, Xtina finger flutters, Mariah hand melisma, Blues Brothers-style hopping, stock rap gestures - these have all become as phony, standardized, and meaningless as jazz hands.

The only difference is that the unimaginative herd still believe it's "hip" to posture in these 20-50 year old tired derivative ways. That's why they sing into beer bottles at bars, and put their neckties around their heads.

It would be like your parents (or grandparents) imitating Jolson in 1965 and thinking it made them cutting edge. The current state of pop culture is stuck in a tar pit of inertia.

Updated On: 1/26/12 at 03:23 PM

[Idiot]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 3:29pm

I'm not bothered that people who use the word 'dawg' don't like musical theatre.

[TheaterAddict17]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 4:37pm

How many of your Idols wind up on Broadway, Randy? Hmm...

[gravity87]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 5:32pm

Regardless of ones opinion on Randy Jackson, that was an awful choice for an Idol audition song, and she didn't sing it particularly well. Personally, I think that that song is terrible out of the context of the show.

[My Oh My]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 6:21pm

So musicals/showtunes don't appeal to some record producer who just sat through a MT-style performance from some no-talent who apparently can't differentiate between music styles and thinks a Broadway belter/crooner is what these POP/Rock producers are looking for.

What's the problem?

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 6:25pm

Oh, I think the standard poses of "rock" performers are as technical and self-conscious as anything to which you might be referring.

I completely agree, newintown. I didn't mean to imply that summer stock was the only venue where overly mannered performances occur, but that it was the mannered performance style to which Cowell and Jackson usually object. They don't complain about songs from DREAMGIRLS performed in Motown style.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 7:15pm

When was the last time an Idol winner actually became a success in the music industry? Carrie Underwood? And only Kelly Clarkson before her?

Maybe Randy needs to reconsider his tastes if so few of the winners actually become what the show's premise intends them to be.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 7:39pm

AMERICAN IDOL promoting limited tastes??


How can that be?

[Starcarolina]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 7:53pm

Randy Jackson is simply not relevant...

[bobbybaby85]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 8:06pm

Updated On: 2/20/18 at 08:06 PM

[Matt2]

Posted: 1/26/12 at 10:14pm

"Some girl auditioned with WHEN YOU GOT IT, FLAUNT IT from The Producers, and Randy went on a whole rant on how 'showtunes turn him off, and he can't stand the vibrato of musical theater performers.'"

Well, Randy Jackson turns me off. However, as others have stated, he is entitled to his opinion, just as I'm entitled to mine. I personally think he has absolutely no idea what he's talking about.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 9:21am

"I didn't mean to imply that summer stock was the only venue where overly mannered performances occur..."

My apologies, Gav, I didn't mean to imply that you implied that; I was just pointing out what seems to me to be a cultural blind spot - that people seem to think that "rock" performance is somehow more "now," "hip," "real," genuine, or relevant than any other applied performance style.

[darquegk]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 10:17am

The catch twenty-two of it, though, is that if "rock star" cliches adn posturing, which are still current and relevant, are no longer current and relevant, what IS the real, genuine and relevant presentational style of the era? IS there one?

[newintown]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 10:23am

That's a good question. I don't know the answer. Other than the simplest performance presentation (just singing a song without doing anything particularly remarkable physically), any physical performance style will "date" itself (i.e., Betty Grable, Elvis, Axl Rose, Beyoncé, etc.).

Personally, I think we've been stuck for the last 30 years in a very conservative era when it comes to popular culture, wherein we tend to repeat the same old memes over and over, with only the slightest and most superficial variations.

Updated On: 1/27/12 at 10:23 AM

[Renart]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 10:42am

One wonders if his reaction would had been different if she had sung "I'm Not Wearing Underwear Today" or "Totally F****d"

But seriously, he was just performing public service by warning people away from theater songs. After all, just look at how much it hurt these careers:

The Beatles - Till There Was You
Louis Armstrong - Hello Dolly
Barbra Streisand - People, Memory
Three Dog Night - Easy to Be Hard
Yvonne Elliman - I Don't Know How to Love Him
Fifth Dimension - Age of Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In, Light Sings
John Travolta/Olivia Newton John - Summer Nights
Judy Collins - Send in the Clowns
Dionne Warwick - I'll Never Fall in Love Again

And of course you'll never find Pete Townshend, Billy Joel or Green Day near a Broadway stage.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 11:03am

Stephen Trask had to tell John Cameron Mitchell to change his vibrato when working on HEDWIG. So do we hate him now?

[newintown]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 11:29am

I believe Trask just mocked Mitchell's vibrato, but Mitchell didn't change it.

The whole concept, however, of "rock" vibrato being inherently different than other kinds of vibrato is utterly idiotic. Not all "rock" or pop performers use the same kind of vibrato.

Some people just need to pretend they know everything, when they really only know something.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 2:24pm

My apologies, Gav, I didn't mean to imply that you implied that; I was just pointing out what seems to me to be a cultural blind spot - that people seem to think that "rock" performance is somehow more "now," "hip," "real," genuine, or relevant than any other applied performance style.

No apology necessary, new. I thought your point was an excellent one and one I hadn't thought much about.

Of course you are right that Mick Jagger is every bit as mannered as the worst kid on TODDLERS AND TIARAS. It's merely a cultural convention that we pretend it is somehow "natural" that all British rock singers sing with Mississippi Delta accents. LOL.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 2:30pm

The catch twenty-two of it, though, is that if "rock star" cliches adn posturing, which are still current and relevant, are no longer current and relevant, what IS the real, genuine and relevant presentational style of the era? IS there one?

Excellent question, darquegk! The answer won't be found in hip hop, a performance style that seems to be nothing BUT a series of poses.

Probably the real horse$hit is the 1960s' notion that there is such a thing as "natural", non-mannered singing. As Sondheim once remarked (in a completely different context), "singing is not a natural activity."

(For those who care, Sondheim was explaining why Method Acting principles do not work when applied to singing technique. He was talking about Harry Guardino.)

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 10:18pm

Her acting on that song was just weird, but she sang it fine. The second song she sang sounded much worse. It laid up close to her break, and I think she cracked on one note, yet of course, Randy thought that she sang that one much better.

I will be quick to complain about forced or too much vibrato, but hers seemed to be healthy and in the right places. Randy may find her vibrato grating, but I find the terrible technique of most rock stars to be grating. It amazes me how these singers trash their voices endlessly, and audiences seem to love it. I may be jumping to conclusions, but it seems like Randy is advocating for the unhealthy singing that is so popular today. When people hear that as good singing, singers get worse and worse, and destroy their voices. Most Broadway performers have learned proper technique, and they have learned how to handle doing eight shows a week. This trend of bad singing in pop/rock music needs to stop so that performers can get their voices back.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 1/27/12 at 11:37pm

"My apologies, Gav, I didn't mean to imply that you implied that; I was just pointing out what seems to me to be a cultural blind spot - that people seem to think that "rock" performance is somehow more "now," "hip," "real," genuine, or relevant than any other applied performance style"

It actually has a term, "rockism" and is a belief that has existed since at least the late 60s. I always find it amusing when people complain about pop stars not writing their own material. Nobody feels that way about Elvis, or Sinatra or a million of pre Beatles performers. Singer/songwriters are great (sometimes) but you can also give credit to someone for being a great pop interpretator. Of course that's what most Idol performers are (minus the great).

There's a great book on the subject Faking It, which points out that Aretha Franklin and the Sex Pistols are just as much pop performers under huge amounts of marketing, producers, etc, as say Donna Summer (who wrote the majority of her hits anyway), etc.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 1/28/12 at 4:40pm

Thanks for the new word, Eric! "Rockism" it is.

My stepson used to be a rock musician/songwriter who achieved some modest success over the course of his career.

I, on the other hand, am a lyricist for musical theater and, on occasion, choral music. I haven't been able to sing anything I've written in decades.

You can imagine the arguments on this subject in my house...