Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary? — Page 2

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#26

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 5:38pm

I don't particularly enjoy the show itself (I think the material is very juvenile) -however, I recognize how important a show it is. It's depiction of NYC and the issues it raises were very relevant at the time, and it was quite "edgy." I think it's historically important, also because of its effect on the youth and their idea of musical theatre.

That being said, doesn't mean I want to see the show over and over again :0)

-Anyone want to turn anarchist with me?

"Bless you and all who know you, oh wise and penguined one." ~YouWantItWhen????

#27

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 6:27pm

I think the criticism about its having made a straight couple the center of a drama about AIDS, is a valid one.

It reminds me of those dramas that were written about Apartheid that always had crusading white protagonists. That's not to say that there weren't white heroes who helped bring about Apartheid's downfall. But it was strange to see that most of the dramas about the Anti-apartheid movement, pushed black South Africans to the periphery in their own struggle.

By making a straight couple the main focus, RENT seems to sell the audience short by assuming that they can only identify with the tragedy of loss between a man and a woman.

Updated On: 8/27/05 at 06:27 PM

#28

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 6:31pm

But then, don't you sort of get into that perpetual debate surrounding what RENT is *truly* about?

There's the camp that says it's about one specific thing: pick AIDS, drugs, sex, homosexuality, politics, etc, etc.

Then there's the camp that it says it's not about one specific thing alone, but about love and community, friendship and struggle.

And, if Jonathan's intentions were for one way just as much as they were for the other, then maybe it makes it slightly more excusable for the things to be so overlapped and intertwined. I'm not saying it's not a flaw, really; but something to consider.

A work of art is an invitation to love.

Updated On: 8/27/05 at 06:31 PM

#29

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 7:53pm

I happen to think that the criticism of having a straight couple be the center of a drama about AIDS is not a valid one. It showed the masses that AIDS was not strictly "a homosexual disease", that it affected all genders, all races, no one was immune.

#30

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 8:08pm

First off, Enjolras77....I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE your icon.

Secondly:

"By making a straight couple the main focus, RENT seems to sell the audience short by assuming that they can only identify with the tragedy of loss between a man and a woman."

I am a straight male and to be honest, I was more heart-broken from the death of Angel and the struggle of Collins to cope with the death than I was with Roger and Mimi. To be honest, if Mimi would have died, I would have been sad but not nearly as sad as when Angel died.

And I agree with Marquise said, "It showed the masses that AIDS was not strictly 'a homosexual disease', that it affected all genders, all races, no one was immune." During the time RENT was breaking onto the scene, a lot of people still thought that only gay people could get AIDS but this musical shows the audience, that even the straight pastor next door could get AIDS if he is not careful. I bet it woke a good amount of people up and made them take a look at their life.

"They're eating her and then they're going to eat me. OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!!!!" -Troll 2

#31

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 9:42pm

"I happen to think that the criticism of having a straight couple be the center of a drama about AIDS is not a valid one. It showed the masses that AIDS was not strictly "a homosexual disease", that it affected all genders, all races, no one was immune."

If there were any people who didn't know that by 1995, they were willfully and shamefully ignorant and a play like RENT certainly wasn't going to reach them because that message was definitely ominpresent.

The late 1980's and early 1990's were constantly filled with artistic works (plays, TV movies, theatrical movies and even sitcoms) and public service announcements that constantly emphasized that AIDS was not a homosexual disease. And it was in the news on a daily basis.

Ask anyone who was an adult during that period. As a matter of fact, some people felt that groups like the Moral Majority used the AIDS epidemic to put the "fear of God" - so to speak - into the public at large in hopes of decreasing the "evils" of promiscuity.

There were even public service announcements that told people that when you had sex, you were sleeping with not only one person, but every person that person had slept with and it advised people to have "safe sex" or abstain. People were constantly were told that NOBODY was immune.

RENT may have said many things to it's audiences, but by the time it came on the scene, the knowledge that anyone could get AIDS was pretty common amongst the entire population. There was no way to miss it.

Updated On: 8/27/05 at 09:42 PM

#32

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 10:05pm

Revolutionary.
There is nothing overreated about rent. its as incredibel as everyone makes it out to be. of every show i've ever seen, every soundtrack i've ever listened to that show has truly been the most incredible and life changing. nothing absolutely nothing compares to the feeling i get when i just listen to the soudntrack. its truly incredible.

The stars gleam The poets dream The eagles fly Without you The Earth turns the sun burns But I die, without you

#33

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 10:14pm

It didn't speak to me when I saw it. It comes off, to me, as somewhat interesting work in progress. Of course, with the author's death so early on in the creative process...we are left to imagine how it would have been in its final form. Very tragic.

Follow the Fellow who Follows a Dream...

Updated On: 8/28/05 at 10:14 PM

#34

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 10:48pm

It has its flaws but it's a pretty good musical nonetheless. To say if it's overrated or revolutionary is opinionary.

I'm not a gay stereotype. I'm a coincidence.

#35

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 10:52pm

RENT has IdInA...so rent iZ PERFECT and AMAZEING!

"If you're a writer or a painter, you write or paint whenever you want to. But we have to do this task at a precise moment. At three minutes past eight, the curtain goes up, and you've got to pretend to believe, because no one else will believe you unless you believe it yourself. A great deal of our work is simply making ourselves dream. That is the task. At three minutes past eight,YOU MUST DREAM."

#36

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 11:13pm

the deal with rent that is the ending completely completely destroys it, there are flaws throughout, songs that are unnescecary or just plain whiney but overall it is very moving which is why i always enjoy seeing it but a part of me consistently cringes when i hear mimi say, "blah blah blah...I jumped over the moon...i saw angel and she look goooood"
if mimi had died and then roger had made some kind of speech/song about not living life in regrets then it would truly be revolutionary but the ending really makes it so poppish if thats a word, it just kills any reality of the show which is why i believe it is slightly overrated

#37

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/27/05 at 11:22pm

Singin' in the Rain, I love your avy.

#38

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 2:56am

I would say both, tilting toward the overrated side. The ending really pissed me off.

#39

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 2:58am

What about it pissed you off? When *****SPOILER***** Angel (who is dead) comes wandering back on stage? **** end SPOILER **** That really pisses me off, too.

"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey

#40

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:08am

the beginning is contrived, the middle is contrived, and the ending is contrived, but it did cause a one-woman revolution in me.
Spoiler as for angel coming back at the end. it was kinda les miser-ic for me, it reminded me of fantine and eponine coming back.

#41

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:12am

Eh, but at least in Les Miz it's clear that they are all dead/ghosts. ***SPOILER (But does anyone on here really NOT know how it ends?)**** Rent plays a dangerous game by letting Angel wander back on at the end. "Hey, it's cool. He just died of AIDS, but here he is joining us to sing and celebrate life!!!" Cop-out and a load of BS ***** END SPOILER*****

"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey

#42

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:17am

both just provide vehicles for the "main" characters to be part of a cast finale

maybe she's there in spirit and there was no other artistic way to show that on stage

Updated On: 8/28/05 at 03:17 AM

#43

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:21am

Sure, I get that, but it's still a crappy cop-out and sends an odd message.

Saw your edit Zannahk: Even so, it's still weird to see someone who just died come sprinting on, especially to those of us who have really lost someone to AIDS. Is it so important that Angel gets to sing one line of the finale with them? A better solution would have been to let her (IN DRAG!) appear above them (where the Life Support group meets) and have her look down. Having her rejoin the group isn't right. She's dead.

"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey

Updated On: 8/28/05 at 03:21 AM

#44

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:33am

in response to the whole Sarah Schulman deal, I just want to say that all works are limited in some way by the subjectivity of the person/people that wrote them as well as the thought of the intended audience by the author.
For instance, La Boheme... an opera set in France, but in Italian, because that's what Puccini wrote it in. The same way most movies in the Unites States are still in English, even when they don't take place in an English speaking country.
Yes, it's good to point out all these factors in pieces of art/entertainment...but ultimately, that's just what they are... a slice of the world and life based on the author/artist's view of it...and entertainment.
No one is ever going to completely encapsulate in a piece of remotely accessible musical art the intense complicated relationships between races and gender preferences. We can't even do that in our whole life times.
And finally, as far as the characters being viewed as equals because they are all bohemians, I think what Sarah missed in the show is the more important reason: they are shown as equals in that light because they are all friends. And anyone who has ever had really good friends knows that.

#45

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:39am

As of December 2004, the matieral just seemed dated. One could tell it was revolutionary at a time, but I found it very overrated.

#46

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:44am

I agree that there are other possible ways to show Angel as part of the show and the characters even after death, but I think it's just supposed to make you feel good.
and yeah, Mimi probably should have died, but the show is depressing enough and needed a balance of emotion for the audience.... although it probably shouldn't have been happy at all to be realistic. most of them are dying or should be dead already based on their individual life choices (drugs) and to emphasize the despair of the show and of real people who "live" the show it should have ended in despair. But I think for the auidence paying for entertainment you want that shimmering glimmering delicate strand of hope, which even though she is dead, is what Angel represents.
... but i digress... um, what was my point?? i'll get back to you when I remember...

#47

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 3:53am

Well, I've had this discussion on several threads, and it always comes to down to fact that everyone gets different things out of it. And I still do love the show, it just gives me pause to some degree.

"How do you like THAT 'misanthropic panache,' Mr. Goldstone?" - PalJoey

#48

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 6:25am

It's really just like a chorus line except with crack whores, homeless people and lesbians.

#49

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 9:25am

Kringas, lemme just point out you are hot.

Anyhoo, I am firmly in the camp that thinks RENT is completely and utter overrated. In fact I'd go further and call it sh*t, but that is just my personal opinion. If RENT touched somebody, then great, I am really happy for that person, doesn't mean the show isn't overrated.

At the risk of sounding like a cynic I think if J. Larson didn't die in the circumstances worthy of a Greek Tragedy the show would not of ever become the phenom it became. In fact his death pretty much was the only thing that cemented it like it did (humans by nature are drawn to such morbid things like moths to a bug zapper). I think it would've had a vibrant off-Broadway run and if it did make it to Broadway I think it would've easily been the "Brooklyn" of the mid-90s (okay if not impressive run, hard core groupies, but not exactly spectuclar all the same).

Not to say if Larson survived he wouldn't of gone off to do bigger and better things. Certainly the guy was talented, and would've gone places and RENT would've been remembered fondly one of his earlier works, that was okay, but not all that.

Also what bothered me is the stereotypical portrayal of gays & lesbians that has already been mentioned. Does anybody know what the term 'Dead Gay Cliché' is? Well RENT admittedly doesn't have have a gay girl (or girl) go straight but it did needlessly kill of the gay guy, but not just that killing him off out of left field while keeping the straight girl (who was sicker) alive (and trust me, keeping Mimi alive was one part I did like - even if it did come across as horibbly cringe-worthy and sappy as a soggy pancake).

I am not saying there wasn't parts to the show I didn't like, and one cannot deny it had very a talented original cast. Heck I love the song "Tango Maureen" for reasons I cannot explain (it just makes me smile every time I listen to it), but I don't think the show overall was all that great.

There is always 'revolutionary' shows that appear off-Broadway but never see the light of day on Broadway (mainly because they don't have the tragic story to go with it). "RENT" is just a show due to some initial bad luck in the first act gave it alot of notice it wouldn't of gotten other wise. Heck I think off-Broadway exists half the time just to create these 'revolutionary shows' that Broadway will adapt 5-10 years later.

Updated On: 8/28/05 at 09:25 AM

#50

re: Rent: Overrated or Revolutionary?

Posted: 8/28/05 at 9:32am

Whether you like RENT or not, I have something I want to say, which might be controversial. If you want Musicals and Broadway to have an even stronger place in culture and you don't go see or at least buy a ticket for RENT (or THE PRODUCERS movie) then you are not doing something that you could be doing to help support musicals in general and the possibility of future musical movies being made. I feel the same way about buying a ticket for Brokeback Mountain to show Hollywood that there is an audience out there for films about relationships between two men or two women.

"The gods who nurse this universe think little of mortals' cares. They sit in crowds on exclusive clouds and laugh at our love affairs. I might have had a real romance if they'd given me a chance. I loved him, but he didn't love me. I wanted him, but he didn't want me. Then the gods had a spree and indulged in another whim. Now he loves me, but I don't love him." - Cole Porter

Updated On: 8/28/05 at 09:32 AM

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