Riedel: PIRATE QUEEN Could be $16 Million Flop- Page 2

[queenbee2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 2:41pm

Sorry, SorryGrateful-

I certainly wasn't implying by that statement that I am the one here to enlighten you. I just thought you might be interested in hearing from someone on "the inside" that might actually have a decent idea as to how the show is selling (ie; the box office lady). Figure that is a bit more reliable than someone saying "PQ is going to flop because the theater is too big and Hot Feet closed quickly".

It wasn't my intent to sound all high and mighty. Sorry if it came across that way.

-QB

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 2:45pm

It did sound snotty, queenbee, but I shouldn't have been so snotty to you as well. Now that you've explained your point, I understand and agree with you. Somewhat.

[WithoutATrace]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 2:46pm

Could the box office lady have lied?

When I was seeing Good Vibrations, a customer at the ticket window asked him how what the critics thought of the show...and he said something like "mostly positive."
Updated On: 3/23/07 at 02:46 PM

[queenbee2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:01pm

Thanks SorryG.

Without a Trace-

Could box office have lied. I guess. Sure.

But why would they? And why make up such a specific lie as "biggest advance the theater has ever had"?

Who knows?

-QB

[WithoutATrace]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:04pm

Believe me, queenbee, I hope she was telling the truth.

However, large box office advance doesn't necessarily mean it will run. Breakfast at Tiffany's had a large advance and closed after 4 previews...and correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Carrie have a decent advance, and it closed after 5 performances.

My point is that this wonderful world of theater that we love so much is totally unpredictable.
Updated On: 3/23/07 at 03:04 PM

[Popular]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:07pm

My point is that this wonderful world of theater that we love so much is totally unpredictable.

Thank you, WAT!

That is exactly why I laugh when people post as if they have a crystal ball in front of them.
Updated On: 3/23/07 at 03:07 PM

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:12pm

People can make predictions - there's nothing wrong with that.

But it, in fact, you find something laughable about it, then I argue that it's no more laughable than shilling and lauding a show long before it was even finished being written. THAT'S laughable.

[antonijan]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:12pm

...and the naked boys:

https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.cfm?thread=929349&dt=49

[Popular]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:17pm

Munk - it's not the PREDICTIONS that I laugh at. Like I said, it's the people that talk as if they have a crystal ball, as if they know 100% what will happen. The whole point I was agreeing with WAT on is that it's unpredictable. You can take your best guess and you may be right, but it's still JUST a guess so even the people who say it will 100% do well don't know for sure.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:19pm

People can't see into the future?

My goodness, I learn something new every day.

BWW should require a disclaimer at the bottom of each post.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:20pm

People can't see into the future?

My goodness, I learn something new every day.

BWW should require a disclaimer at the bottom of each post.

[Popular]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:35pm

People can't see into the future?

My goodness, I learn something new every day.

I know, Munk. You would think that's a given, and yet people still post like they do. Go figure. :)


Updated On: 3/23/07 at 03:35 PM

[Starlight2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:39pm

I find the title of the article rather misleading. The conclusion that the writer came to is that this isn't the same show that people saw in Chicago....that we will have to wait and see what the critics say about it in New York. Unfortunately, some people will only read the title of this article as they browse through the newspaper and form an opinion about the show without even reading what the article has to say. I wish that the writer of the article had chosen a title that better reflected the conclusion that he came to about the show and its Broadway run.

Updated On: 3/23/07 at 03:39 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 3:57pm

Not to be negative (and Pirate Queen certainly may be an exception), but having a large advance is NO guarantee whatsoever that a show won't flop and close early. There have been plenty of shows with $15-20 million+ advances that have gotten a slate of bad reviews and seen that money dry up overnight. Remember that a huge percentage of advances are made up by group sales pledges and those pledges can be cancelled (and that advance money refunded) in the event, if for whatever reason the show doesn't look like it'll live up to the hype -- bad reviews, the star being replaced etc... (when Christina Applegate broke her ankle out of town with SWEET CHARITY and they wanted to replace her with Charlotte D'Amboise, several millions in group sales were cancelled immediately, until Applegate promised that she would open the show on Broadway).

[jbdc]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 5:06pm

Three things:

--Riedel's article actually is very hopeful and positive (for him), but with a typically tabloid headline. It almost says, "All we are saying is, Give Pirates a Chance." I almost got sentimental, and I fully admit to not really caring one way or the other on Pirate Queen.

--Is Frank Galati still billed as director?

--The Hilton is a huge house. The theatre's "Karma" has a lot to do with that. 100% at the Jacobs is way different than 100% at the Hilton. And the rent has to be paid. Putting unproven shows in places like The Hilton, Gershwin, New Amsterdam or St. James, even the Imperial is a HUGE risk, no matter how good the shows are. The Helen Hayes is so small, Xanadu might run for ten years.
Updated On: 3/23/07 at 05:06 PM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 5:10pm

queenbee, are you sure the box office lady didn't mean the biggest advance since it was renamed The Hilton. Maybe i'm rong, but I can't imagine PQ having a bigger advance than Ragtime, or especially 42nd Street.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 5:17pm

Ugh, Riedel always does this.

"Oh, Temper, Temper will kill Mary Poppins. Oh, the fact that Spring Awakening is a new musical that needs to establish itself on Broadway and isn't doing well after a ridiculously short preview period means it might crash and burn."

However, with all the bad buzz that PQ is getting, I wouldn't be surprised if he was actually right.

Updated On: 4/8/07 at 05:17 PM

[skingdom]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 5:23pm

The only reason I'm keeping my mouth shut on what i think is becuase i really like Stephanie Block.

What actually has soured me more than anything to this show is the stream of supporters on this website who have nothing but blind love for it.

It pisses me off.

Skingdom out.

[queenbee2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 6:02pm

WonderfulWizard-

Good question and I asked the same thing. Nope, she meant since the theater was rebuilt, which was FOR Ragtime I believe. So, not just since it was renamed.

I was a bit surprised to hear this as well, but then I started trying to put together in my head the large number of people who are fans of Riverdance (a show which has grossed over a BILLION dollars) and how many people loved Saigon and Les Miz, and it started to make sense. I would assume those groups are the people they are trying to attract (as opposed to The Spring Awakening 'young crowd' or the Grey Gardens 'intellectual crowd'?), and when those people heard about this show, they must have jumped on it.

I have to admit, the (now somewhat overused) tagline of FROM THE CREATORS OF LES MISERABLES is what got me interested in the show in the first place. It would appear I am not the only one.

And yes, very true that an advance in no way means a show is going to run. But having a large advance is certainly better than the alternative.

-QB

[stonewall2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 6:17pm

Recouping the amount invested in this show appears unlikely, but MY bigeest qestion is "Can people truly like this show if they know nothing about the story behind it?" and I would have to say that the HUGE majority of folks trouping into occupy seats haven't the faintest idea of the story behind Grace O'Malley and Queen Elizabeth I. I count myself lucky in that I am both a theatre AND a history buff and I truly think that knowing the story of the period where their lives were intertwined is quite important. Only time will tell, I guess.

[Dover]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 6:46pm

On a slight tangent about what the box office people say about a show, may I just make a general statement to the theatregoing world at large:

DO NOT ASK FRONT-OF-HOUSE EMPLOYEES IF THE SHOW IS GOOD!

What the hell do you expect them to say? As a former front of house person, who worked a number of new shows, I can't believe how many people would come up to me and ask, "Is the show any good?" "Do you like it?" "What have people been saying when they come out?" "Is it true what I read in the papers about ______?" When a show is in previews and the theatre is swarming with investors, producers, creative team members, etc., do you really think an employee of the show or theatre is going to tell a patron what they think if it's anything negative?

The best part was when I worked on struggling shows that I really liked, and people would ask if I liked the show, and I'd say that I did very much. Then they'd say, "Oh, you don't really mean that, you just have to say that." SO WHY THE &@#%#* DID YOU ASK!?

/ rant off

[keen on kean]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 7:28pm

Dover - kind of like asking the flight attendant if it is a good airline.

[stonewall2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 7:43pm

or, as my then 7 year old son boarding for his very first plane flight said to the pilot," Do you REALLY know how to fly this thing?" The co-pilot cracked up and received one of "those looks" that could have been seen from the far balcony!

[queenbee2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 7:45pm

Umm, Dover, I don't think I asked if the show was good or bad. I like to determine that for myself. What I asked was how are they selling and how was their advance. To which I received a pretty specific response.

But that's okay.

The Pirate Queen has no advance and they aren't selling very well.

Feel better.

-QB

[commasplice]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 8:22pm

QB, Dover said he was going on a tangent; he wasn't attacking PQ or its box office workers, just venting about general box office-related frustrations that he's had experience with in the past.
Updated On: 3/23/07 at 08:22 PM