Shows that should have won best musical?- Page 2

Posted: 6/4/11 at 7:53am

Caroline or Change over Avenue Q.
ANYTHING but Contact in 2000 (The WIld Party maybe??)
Next to Normal over Billy Elliot (for sure!)

and I'm sorry- you don't throw on a pop band's catalog, take a ridiculously loose script that was heavily lifted from the musical 'Hair' and the film "Across the Unverse', bang your head for 90 minutes and call it choreography... and rename it 'American Idiot' to latch on to a recycled generation of angst.. and give it a Tony. A high school drama class can conjure up that whiny misery in a week. If it were that easy- we'd all have Tonys. or at least people with imaginations would.

Memphis deserved it-for the simple reason that there was nothing else out there that had a formidable decent musical structure with original music, excellent choreography, and a yet a blah book- but still somehwat engaging (if you didn't see Hairspray and placed it in the 50's).

[castlestreet]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 9:23am

Follies is in my book the biggest mistake ever- there is no way Two Gentleman of Verona should have won.

I will forever be baffled as to how Contact won Best Musical. I pretty much feel the same way about Fosse.

For those who feel Nine should have lost to Dreamgirls, I have 10 or so good friends who saw both, and these people usually do not agree on ANYTHING, that being said they have all said that Tommy Tune's NINE was one of the few Musical Masterpieces they ever saw on a stage. I wish I had seen both myself, but that was just a bit before my theatre going days.

As much as I'm a Sunset fan, I'm kinda shocked that no one is harping about Smokey Joes...

[slmlbl]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 10:02am

I am SOOOOOO onboard the Caroline or Change boat. GLORIOUS musical that is so underappreciated and should have won that year.

Also in the Piazza should have won camp.

[charlesjguiteau]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 11:15am

Interesting to see so much support for Caroline, or Change! Did you guys all see the Broadway production or are you just basing your choice on the CD? I personally found the book and much of the score great, but found the show onstage rarely caught fire for me. Loved Tonya Pinkins (and Anika Noni Rose) but was left with a pretty cerebral experience rather than a visceral one.


Updated On: 6/4/11 at 11:15 AM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 11:25am

Most Happy Fella over My Fair Lady
On the Twentieth Century over Ain't Misbehavin'
Into the Woods over Phantom of the Opera
Falsettos over Crazy for You
Tommy over Kiss of the Spider Woman
Parade over Fosse
The Wild Party over Contact
The Full Monty over The Producers
Urinetown over Thoroughly Modern Millie
The Drowsy Chaperone over Jersey Boys
Grey Gardens over Spring Awakening

[charlesjguiteau]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 11:42am

I'll put a word in Ain't Misbehavin's behalf over On the Twentieth Century, having seen both OBC shows. On paper (and CD) OtTC is a winner, and yes, the set was brilliant along with much of the cast. But for me, that was a show that ran out of steam well before the train pulled into Penn Station. The show left you exhausted (even exhilarated), but not at all moved.

Ain't Misbehavin', on the other hand, just seems like a light and jaunty review on the CD. But WOW what happened onstage was astonishing and constantly involving between those 5 performers and the band. Full arcs of character development were acted out from song to song. And when they got to Black and Blue in the 2nd act, the hair on the back of your neck stood on end! We couldn't applaud loud enough by the curtain call.

[charlesjguiteau]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 11:42am

doublepost Updated On: 6/4/11 at 11:42 AM

[broadwaydevil]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 11:51am

I saw Caroline, Or Change on Broadway and loved it. I listen to the recording regularly as well.

Taboo - I found Memphis to be pretty painful. I would say the same for Million Dollar Quartet. I never saw Fela! so can't vouch for it, but it seems pretty uninteresting. I thought American Idiot was, albeit nontraditional, a pretty interesting musical and probably the best of its kind that really captured my generation. (I'm in my early 20's)

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 12:42pm

Parade over Fosse
Ragtime over The Lion King
Miss Saigon over Will Rogers
Light in the Piazza over Spamalot

[wickedfan]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 1:20pm

Thank you, charles, for defending Ain't Misbehavin'. For anyone who doubts its merits as a Best Musical winner, go on youtube and watch the televised version of the original production with the original cast and just watch yourself be proven wrong.

I also want to add that Contact was by far the most deserving winner in 2000. Swing! was fun, but empty, James Joyce's The Dead was boring and The Wild Party, while having flashes of brilliance, was pretentious. All four productions had nearly perfect original casts, but that isn't enough. Contact may not fit the standard mold of a musical, but it was incredible and thrilling. Totally deserved.

In regards to the main subject of this thread, so many, but I'd have to say:
Flower Drum Song over Redhead
Gypsy over Sound of Music/Fiorello
She Loves Me over Hello Dolly (I just don't care for Hello, Dolly)
Seesaw over Raisin
Sunday in the Park with George over La Cage Aux Folles (though I understand La Cage's historical significance at the time)
Into the Woods over Phantom of the Opera
Miss Saigon over Will Rogers' Follies
Smokey Joe's Cafe over Sunset Boulevard
Ragtime over The Lion King
The Full Monty over The Producers
Caroline or Change over Avenue Q
Light in the Piazza over Spamalot
Grey Gardens over Spring Awakening
American Idiot over Memphis

[Steel Pier Fan]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 2:41pm

In Avenue Q's defense, Caroline, or Change had mixed reviews even though now it is considered one of then best musicals of the decade. A title it deserves I might add.

[uncageg]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 3:40pm

"CAROLINE, OR CHANGE is, hands down, one of the best musicals ever written. I sat behind Tony Kushner tonight at the theater and it took everything I had not to bow to him for giving it to us."

I would have! Caroline or Change is the best musical I have seen since the original Broadway production of Sweeney Todd.

[jwsel]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 3:54pm

Quote: 'Interesting to see so much support for Caroline, or Change! Did you guys all see the Broadway production or are you just basing your choice on the CD? I personally found the book and much of the score great, but found the show onstage rarely caught fire for me. Loved Tonya Pinkins (and Anika Noni Rose) but was left with a pretty cerebral experience rather than a visceral one."

I saw the touring production, with the original cast, and thought if was quite a visceral experience. Having said that, I loved both Caroline and Avenue Q, and see the merits of both. Avenue Q was something completely different on Broadway at the time, it was the 'underdog' show, and there was a feeling that its appeal to 20- and 30-something would help revitalize Broadway. And I think it's quite unfair to call it a puppet show. It's much more than that.

Caroline is also an excellent show but it was a hard sell. It had one of the single-greatest performances I've ever seen. (The greater travesty that year, imo, was Tonya Pinkins not winning best actress in a musical.) But as great s the performance was, Caroline was full of so much rage that it was hard to like her. I think that was one of the reasons initial reaction to the show was so mixed.

Going back to the topic:

Dreamgirls over Nine
Ragtime over Lion King (this one I understand and has a lot of the same elements as the Avenue Q/Caroline or Change year, but I think Ragtime is badly underrated as a musical)
Drowsy Chaperone over Jersey Boys


Updated On: 6/5/11 at 03:54 PM

[Steel Pier Fan]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 4:19pm

Yea, I hate when people call Q a puppet show or Wicked a show a bout some green girl. They try to make their point sound smarter by making the other shows sound stupid. You could call Caroline, or Change a show about a sad black woman but it is so much more then that.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 4:40pm

Yea, I hate that too.

[broadwaybabywannabe]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 4:46pm

"For those who feel Nine should have lost to Dreamgirls, I have 10 or so good friends who saw both, and these people usually do not agree on ANYTHING, that being said they have all said that Tommy Tune's NINE was one of the few Musical Masterpieces they ever saw on a stage."...

I saw both shows that year and NINE was a total "huh?" for me...DREAMGIRLS of course lives on and on because it was and is a better all around musical...while both made for horrible movies, NINE truly was a piece of s**t as a movie, and DREAMGIRLS gave us at least JENNIFER HUDSON...

[shrekster224]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 4:50pm

Jordan, I thought that's what you believed Wicked was? Some fat green girl hoisting herself up in the air singing about her lack of friends.... :)

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:03pm

I never said she was fat.

[Steel Pier Fan]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:10pm

Jordan, please don't post on my thread's. Every time you do they turn into a joke just because you don't like the topic. Thanks.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:15pm

Steel Pier fan...Threads like this seem to exist only to promote heated arguments, and if that was your goal you have succeeded.

Even the critics seldom agree on what is the very best play or musical of a given season, and Tony voters are not given any guidelines to help them evaluate each show. In the end they go with whatever show gave them the most personal pleasure (and, on reflection, maybe that is not such a bad idea.) I dare say most Tony voters (and their kids) had more fun at LION KING than at RAGTIME (which explains that upset). I DO wish Tony Voters had a "no Award" selection on their ballot so that in really poor years they could elect NOT to give a Tony if no show is deemed worthy. That would spare us the embarassment of having to label CONTACT or SUNSET BLVD as "Tony Award winning musicals."

Many theatre fans (not to mention the AP Theatre writer) were furious when the Tony for Best musical went to what AP decried as a "gloomy new Stephen Sondheim musical (PASSION) instead of to the glittering BEAUTY AND THE BEAST." YES.. that is eaxactrly what the article sent out by AP said! The writer's argument was that Brodway had deliberately ignored the Disney extravganza. Nonsense, of course but many BATB fans were miffed at the lack of awards for the lavish show.

Fans of any show can get violent when their fave doesn't win. (Look at the reaction of WICKED fans to AVE Q) but the only way you can fairly judge the merit of the awards is to see ALL of the nomnees yourself, which is what the league intends when the nominations are announced: Its just another way of increasing ticket sales, at least for a few weeks.

[Steel Pier Fan]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:18pm

Okay lets not argue and just list and discuss shows you thought should have won.

[wickedfan]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:22pm

People argue, steel pier fan. It's part of the human condition. Just because you ask for people to not argue doesn't mean that they won't. In fact, on this board, by telling people not to argue, you're pretty much inviting them to do just that.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:22pm

Steel Pier Fan, please don't post on Broadway World. Every time you do they turn into a joke just because you don't like the responses. Thanks.

[Steel Pier Fan]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:25pm

Nice attempt at being witty Jordan. I feel hypocritical for telling people not to argue.

[Kad]

Posted: 6/4/11 at 5:25pm

It's a message board on the internet. Arguments are going to happen whether you want them to or not, just like revivals of Gypsy.