Sweeney Todd: Hero or Villain? — Page 4

I never meant to imply that it was wrong to deceive Turpin, and I'm sorry if it read that way. I only brought that up as it shows that Johanna is capable of deception, and, thus, not entirely innocent. Even if the action itself is completely justified (which in this case, it certainly is), the fact that she CAN and DOES deceive quite readily sets her apart from characters like Tobias and Lucy, who are more gullible, and trusting. Innocence, in this case, is a hindrance - which is why these 2 characters are completely destroyed.

Hmmm..interesting. Could you elaborate on the idea that she's so mad that she's not actually in control? I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that. I've always felt that Lucy isn't really in control of anything, but is still very aware (even in other versions of the show). She is, after all, (and rather ironically) the voice of lucidity, who's able to see the death that surrounds the pie shop.

She's certainly much less of the rambling lunatic in Doyle's version of the musical. But I'm not entirely sure if she's calculating, or "too" aware. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on that.

Ok, yes, I see what you mean. And I agree. Doyle's world is one much darker, and more seethed in corruption. Even Tobias' delivery of "I'd rip it apart with my bare fists, I would" is incredibly creepy (and shows that he, too, harbors some darkness). I still stand by the notion that he's an innocent, but it's interesting that Doyle chose to make this a much darker "Sweeney Todd", in which no one is really excempt from some kind of guilt.

Sweeney is a tricky beast because it's written in the style of old fashioned melodramas. I think the reason we're having such a hard time typifying Anthony is because he's the character most overtly written in the style (besides the judge, Pirelli, and the beadle). He's the hero who falls in love with the heroine and endures countless perils to save her without much motivation. The thing is in this Sweeney the normal hero (Anthony) is a supporting character and the protagonist of the story is the supposed villain (Sweeney). In turn, the characters who would normally play bit parts in a traditional telling of this kind of story (like Mrs. Lovett, Toby, Johanna) instead are humanized and given depth. Which is a really interesting spin on storytelling, I think. I don't know much about the Bond play, or if the precedent for telling the story from Sweeney's pov was in effect long before the 70s, but I still think it's a neat way to tell a story.

Now that I think about it, Anthony is kind of an incidental character. He's a plot motivator, but there's not much else to dig into. The beggar woman is kind of the same way (existing mostly for the twist at the end).

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sooo how's the revival? i'm sure that's been asked already but i'll ask anyways...haha.

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