Sweeney Todd: Hero or Villain?

Is Sweeney a hero or a villain? Any thoughts? I can't decide, I keep going back and forth. I understand why he does what he does, but still, he is murdering mostly innocent people...Opinions?

(PS: Michale Cerveris' take on "The Barber and His Wife" is pure genius.)

hmmm - I have a slightly different take on it. Is he a "hero" in the sense that Superman is, no, he's not. However, he is CLEARLY the protagonist of the piece. If you then look at Judge Turpin as his antagonist, and no one would argue that Turpin is a villain, then by that sense, yes, he is a hero.

(Bit of a logical mind game, but there it is...)

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He's an anti-hero.

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I disagree that Mrs. Lovett is the villain. Again, in a broader sense, in another piece, both she and Sweeney would CLEARLY be considered villains. In THIS piece, in this world, though, Sweeney is definitely the protagonist. Mrs. Lovett is not working against him, and therefore CAN'T be the villain.

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Re: Johanna, is it still murder if it's in self defense? I don't think it is....

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Lovett is DEFINITELY portrayed as the villain in the new revival.

As sumofallthings said, Sweeney Todd is an anti-hero. The main character of the piece who we are drawn to root for despite their lack of any "heroic" quality.

I think it is far to simple to refer to every killing in the show as "murder."

Wickedgeek, certainly everyone has flaws, but I think there is far more to the judge's villainy than being a pervert. He misuses his power, rapes, and has predatory incestuous desires.
And Anthony "helping Johanna run away" how is that a "bad deed"?

jasonf, Lovett is the one who takes Sweeney's obsession with revenge and warps it for own ends, ultimately causing the deaths of many innocent people and perpetuating many of the subsequent events.
Although it is very difficult to argue that anyone other than Judge Turpin is THE VILLAIN.

The show is interested in exploring obsession and desire and the depths to which we will sink to fulfill those desires. Every character is effected in some way by their own obsessions.

Even Anthony is not free from this, I have never seen his obsession with Johanna as "pure."

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In my eyes, and what I believe, a Christians eyes, murder is murder no matter how you look at it. She is still guilty as sin at the end of the show. Not saying shes damned to hell for it, especially her mental state at the time and what the circumstances were around it. But still, by the end of the show I believe all but 1 have committed dastardly acts

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While you may see it that way, it is certainly not a long standing "Christian" notion.
Circumstances are very important, and the implication made in the show is that Fogg has been horribly mistreating the inmates in the asylum, there are vast extenuating circumstances involved.

I do not believe that Johanna is "innocent" but I think there are far more shades that need to be taken into account than, "murder is murder."

Ljay, I really have no idea what the problem is with Anthony taking her away. She should not have been confined with Sweeney or with the Judge.
What I do see is that he has his own notions of controlling and confining her, and that his obsession with her freedom is not just for her, but also to fulfill his own desires.

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Updated On: 2/5/06 at 07:43 PM

Sorry, but thats just how I look at it. The most tyrannical dictator still deserves life, well maybe not deserves, but certainly not death. In my belief, I see God as being the only true power that has such power to do so. Otherwise, I see it as an offense, but we should have no say in taking life, no matter how cruel the person is. However a life behind bars never hurt anyone who doesn't mind slaughtering mass amounts of people without losing sleep.
My point is, I just can't justify something like that and not feel there was something else to be done

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I certainly would have to side with the defensive person, but still I can't help thinking that I would never be able to get over doing something like that.
In second grade, I remember when exactly it was I came to stick with this thought, I precisely remember hearing in religion class "Murderers go to Hell". Immediately I panicked and asked "What if your familys house was being robbed and you had to protect your family?" and she said "There are no excuses, it still counts"
I guess that left an indelible mark on me ever since and I have since come to accept that it is what I truly believe
And to actually make some relevance in this whole thread, I will say that I believe the Judge is the antagonist of the show and is the true villian. After all, Lovetts only terrible deed was jealousy, lust, and deceit. Who hasnt partaken in one of those three to get what they want? It is human nature. Although that makes it no more forgiveable, it still is more acceptable, whereas Turpins actions are just strictly criminal

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Updated On: 2/5/06 at 07:56 PM

Sweeney is an exercise in moral ambiguity.

Poor Johanna was the distubred object of everybodys longing and greed. She and pre-prison Sweeney are the most tragic instances to be found in the show. Plus innocent people in the shop getting killed. Favorite moment still remains the man going in with the girl and George just turns around and makes one of the best faces ever and restrains himself

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