#326
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:20pm
That song they keep promoting is not good alone or in the show
THE QUEEN OF VERSAILLES with Kristin Chenowith & F. Murray Abraham to open at St. James in November — Page 14
#327
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:25pm
Respectfully: this conversation - my posts included - has grown reductive, tethered to gay community ally identity, and removed from Kirk's other, arguably more egregious rhetoric about Black women and men, and women in general. Kirk argued against women having careers that denied their fecundity, opining that higher education is valuable mostly to land a spouse; and infamously denigrated four highly educated/accomplished Black women, including a SCOTUS justice and the former First Lady, as being mediocrities who attained unearned societal status by stealing opportunities from white men. I'm not paraphrasing, as most folks here know. He didn't want to fly on planes with pilots of color, presuming affirmative action-enabled incompetence. He believed a percentage of gun deaths is acceptable in order to accommodate self-armed vigilantism. These were not one-off remarks caught by a hot mic; he repeated his incendiary words publicly, amplifying them as fundamental to his ideology. So Chenoweth being an LGBTQ+ supporter is almost irrelevant; it's not counterbalance to ignorance of Kirk's abject misogyny, racism, and megalomania, voiced as recently as the afternoon of his death
Chenoweth had 8 days to fully immerse herself in Kirk's stated beliefs, to self-educate about how offensive Kirk's ideas were to huge swaths of the population, all of which are represented in the theater community. And chose to address only her status as a Christian and LGBTQ ally. That remains the basis of too-little-too-late. Had she simply confessed her ignorance of the many ways Kirk disrespected her colleagues and their families, she might've been past this by now.
"I'm a comedian, but in my spare time, things bother me." Garry Shandling
Updated On: 9/23/25 at 02:25 PM
#328
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:36pm
The online hate she is getting is totally bonkers. She obviously did not agree with him in his LGBTQ stances, but rather his Bible-based approach to morality, and she’s probably pro-life, etc. This rage-filled tribalism is so exhausting.
#329
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:38pm
This was going to bomb with or without Chenoweth’s ignorant Kirk remarks.
#330
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:41pm
jlindsey865 said: "This was going to bomb with or without Chenoweth’s ignorant Kirk remarks."
I actually think it'll do fine. The word of mouth from the last run was fairly good. And there''s no competition for new musicals this season, at least not until March/April.
#331
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:45pm
jlindsey865 said: "This was going to bomb with or without Chenoweth’s ignorant Kirk remarks."
Absolutely. Incredible that people haven't learned anything after Tammy fiasco. Stop making musicals about scummy people, dead or alive.
Updated On: 9/23/25 at 02:45 PM
#332
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:47pm
gibsons2 said: "jlindsey865 said: "This was going to bomb with or without Chenoweth’s ignorant Kirk remarks."
Absolutely. Incredible that people haven't learned after Tammy fiasco. Stop making musicals about scummy people, dead or alive."
What a strange comment. Tammy Faye was a well known advocate for people with AIDS. Like, she had a lot of faults but she wasn't scummy.
#333
Posted: 9/23/25 at 2:54pm
pagereynolds said: "gibsons2 said: "jlindsey865 said: "This was going to bomb with or without Chenoweth’s ignorant Kirk remarks."
Absolutely. Incredible that people haven't learned after Tammy fiasco. Stop making musicals about scummy people, dead or alive."
What a strange comment. Tammy Faye was a well known advocate for people with AIDS. Like, she had a lot of faults but she wasn't scummy."
Debatable. Both of her husbands were convcited of fraud. Would be silly to think she hasn't fully participated in those schemes.
#334
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:00pm
pagereynolds said: "gibsons2 said: "jlindsey865 said: "This was going to bomb with or without Chenoweth’s ignorant Kirk remarks."
Absolutely. Incredible that people haven't learned after Tammy fiasco. Stop making musicals about scummy people, dead or alive."
What a strange comment. Tammy Faye was a well known advocate for people with AIDS. Like, she had a lot of faults but she wasn't scummy."
TBF, Tammy Faye was involved, implicitly or directly, in scummy behavior that defrauded a lot of people out of their life savings (similar to Jackie Siegel). Tammy displayed enough vulnerability and accountability to later redeem herself. Jackie, meanwhile, is set to move into the trash palace that was paid for by her ill-gotten gains and still seems pretty scummy (outside the family tragedy that humanizes her).
QoV is more similar to MJ as an example of a musical made about scummy people as authorized by that scummy person (or their estate). Of course, MJ is a success, because that person was incredibly talented in addition to being scummy.
#335
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:10pm
GiantsInTheSky2 said: "BrodyFosse123 said: "DiscoCrows said: "Is Siegel actually billed as a producer?"
Unless things changed for Broadway, according to the Playbill for the Boston tryout, she was not:
"
Siegel’s production company, Beautiful People Productions, can be found near the top."
.
Sonia Friedman has been added to the producing team
"Anything you do, let it it come from you--then it will be new."
Sunday in the Park with George
#336
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:26pm
gibsons2 said: "jlindsey865 said: "This was going to bomb with or without Chenoweth’s ignorant Kirk remarks."
Absolutely. Incredible that people haven't learned anything after Tammy fiasco. Stop making musicals about scummy people, dead or alive."
Yeah, the hate she is getting now is over the top honestly, but this show is about a crappy person who isn't very interesting so that's why I think it will bomb. People are far more selective these days regarding who and who they do not want to support.
#337
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:29pm
I think the issue with Tammy Faye wasn’t that it was about a scummy person- it was about an irrelevant person. And I think that is also the case here, to a much larger degree.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
Updated On: 9/23/25 at 03:29 PM
#338
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:34pm
Kad said: "I think the issue with Tammy Faye wasn’t that it was about a scummy person- it was about an irrelevant person. And I think that is also the case here, to a much larger degree."
Thank you. I wouldn't compare MJ with any of those 2 women. MJ and his music are universally known. Whether you love him or despise him, he's a global cultural icon.
Nobody heard about those two horrible, irrelevant, least relatable women until someone on Broadway made musicals about them.
Updated On: 9/23/25 at 03:34 PM
#339
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:35pm
Do any of yall speak to your own mothers? I’m pretty sure they too would talk about the tragedy of political violence more than his views. It’s just people who assume the best in everyone is the big fault here.
On another note, the balcony is for sale on the first Saturday evening performance, October 11. I’m assuming the balcony goes up for sale after the other two levels have sold well enough. Looking at the seating charts, don’t know what’s been blocked out, but it doesn’t look terrible. They are definitely moving tickets, but need the reviews and word of mouth to get them to the Tonys no doubt about it. I’m hoping this is a maybe happy ending situation
#340
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:36pm
gibsons2 said: "Kad said: "I think the issue with Tammy Faye wasn’t that it was about a scummy person- it was about an irrelevant person. And I think that is also the case here, to a much larger degree."
Thank you. I wouldn't compare MJ with any of those 2 women. MJ and his music are universally known. Whether you love him or despise him, he's a global cultural icon.
Nobody heard about those two horrible, irrelevant, least relatable women until someone on Broadway made musicals about them."
Oh, please. Whatever you can say about Tammy or Jackie, they weren't/aren't child molestors.
#341
Posted: 9/23/25 at 3:47pm
pagereynolds said: "gibsons2 said: "Kad said: "I think the issue with Tammy Faye wasn’t that it was about a scummy person- it was about an irrelevant person. And I think that is also the case here, to a much larger degree."
Thank you. I wouldn't compare MJ with any of those 2 women. MJ and his music are universally known. Whether you love him or despise him, he's a global cultural icon.
Nobody heard about those two horrible, irrelevant, least relatable women until someone on Broadway made musicals about them."
Oh, please. Whatever you can say about Tammy or Jackie, they weren't/aren't child molestors."
True, as far as we know. Still, both these women have low morals. Also, let's not pretend that being a child molester is an issue for many. For tens of millions, it's not..
#342
Posted: 9/23/25 at 4:30pm
Don’t forget that Assassins - one of the best musicals of the 1990s - was about multiple real-life scummy people. It can be done…
#343
Posted: 9/23/25 at 4:46pm
Yeah, the canon is full of criminals, con artists, gangsters, murderers, lowlives, and Evan Hansen. The question is can the artists justify telling the story and make it compelling?
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#344
Posted: 9/23/25 at 5:17pm
The Bandstand said: "Do any of yall speak to your own mothers? I’m pretty sure they too would talk aboutthe tragedy of political violence more than his views. It’s just peoplewho assume the best in everyone is the big fault here."
As I asked before on the thread: Does Chenoweth regularly speak out when high-profile individuals are killed for their beliefs, as when Melissa Hortman and her family were murdered? I honestly don't know the answer to that, and I'd be interested to know from those who follow her. If it's "no," then it's very telling that she would single out Charlie Kirk, of all people, as someone worthy of her special attention.
(I know the example of Melissa Hortman has become something of an all-purpose cudgel since Kirk was killed, but that's just because it's so useful in determining what people's real motives are when they choose to publicly mourn his death.)
Updated On: 9/23/25 at 05:17 PM
#345
Posted: 9/23/25 at 5:19pm
kdogg36 said: "The Bandstand said: "Do any of yall speak to your own mothers? I’m pretty sure they too would talk aboutthe tragedy of political violence more than his views. It’s just peoplewho assume the best in everyone is the big fault here."
As I said before on the thread: Does Chenoweth regularly speak out when high-profile individuals are killedfor their beliefs, as whenMelissa Hortman and her family were murdered? I honestly don't know the answer to that, and I'd be interested to know from those who follow her.Ifit's "no," then it's very telling that she would single out Charlie Kirk, of all people, as someone worthy of her special attention.
(I know the example of Melissa Hortman has become something of an all-purpose cudgel since Kirk was killed, but that's just because it's so useful in determining what people's real motives are when they choose to publicly mourn his death.)"
She didn't publicly speak out at all. She left a message on Mr. Kirk's Instagram for his family.
#346
Posted: 9/23/25 at 5:24pm
Kad said: "Yeah, the canon is full of criminals, con artists, gangsters, murderers, lowlives, and Evan Hansen. The question is can the artists justify telling the story and make it compelling?"
I love that Evan Hansen has his own scumbag category 🤣
Updated On: 9/23/25 at 05:24 PM
#347
Posted: 9/23/25 at 5:26pm
Kad said: "Yeah, the canon is full of criminals, con artists, gangsters, murderers, lowlives, and Evan Hansen."
God that made me laugh.
#348
Posted: 9/23/25 at 5:32pm
pagereynolds said: "kdogg36 said: "The Bandstand said: "Do any of yall speak to your own mothers? I’m pretty sure they too would talk aboutthe tragedy of political violence more than his views. It’s just peoplewho assume the best in everyone is the big fault here."
As I said before on the thread: Does Chenoweth regularly speak out when high-profile individuals are killedfor their beliefs, as whenMelissa Hortman and her family were murdered? I honestly don't know the answer to that, and I'd be interested to know from those who follow her.Ifit's "no," then it's very telling that she would single out Charlie Kirk, of all people, as someone worthy of her special attention.
(I know the example of Melissa Hortman has become something of an all-purpose cudgel since Kirk was killed, but that's just because it's so useful in determining what people's real motives are when they choose to publicly mourn his death.)"
She didn't publicly speak out at all. She left a message on Mr. Kirk's Instagram for his family."
She made a public comment on a public Instagram page. If she wanted to speak to them directly, send flowers.
#349
Posted: 9/23/25 at 5:52pm
pagereynolds said: "She didn't publicly speak out at all. She left a message on Mr. Kirk's Instagram for his family."
If it wasn't public, how do we know about it, then?
Since you seem to know a lot about this, could you answer my question as to whether Chenoweth regularly made similar gestures about Hortman and other previous victims? (Again, I honestly don't know the answer, though I'd be lying if I said I didn't have my suspicions.)
Updated On: 9/23/25 at 05:52 PM
#350
Posted: 9/23/25 at 5:56pm
kdogg36 said: "pagereynolds said: "She didn't publicly speak out at all. She left a message on Mr. Kirk's Instagram for his family."
If it wasn't public, how do we know about it, then?
Since you seem to know a lot about this, could you answer my question as to whether Chenoweth regularly made similar gesturesabout Hortman and other previous victims? (Again, I honestly don't know the answer, though I'd be lying if I said I didn't have my suspicions as to the answer.)"
Chenoweth was responding to a viral video of someone being murdered. Her not speaking out about other victims isn't the slam dunk against her you think it is.
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