#151
Posted: 8/31/04 at 6:03pm
Sweeney Todd with the original cast was my first Broadway show and was almost my first theatrical experience. I never recovered.
The All-Sondheim Thread — Page 7
#152
Posted: 8/31/04 at 10:25pm
*bumping this up to keep Mr. Sondheim on the front page for just a little bit longer*
#153
Posted: 8/31/04 at 10:35pm
I shopped a class on Japanese drama today, mostly because it would help me understand the content of Pacific Overtures. I'm probably not going to take it, though, because it comes after 3 other very intense classes that I need for my prospective majors.
So what to replace it with? Set design sound good?
So what to replace it with? Set design sound good?
#154
Posted: 8/31/04 at 10:37pm
Kiss -
I saw Bounce in DC and was underwhelmed. It had moments - but too few of them. The big problem was that there wasn't much of a connection between the brothers. It was fine, just not Sondheim at his best... Gavin Creel was at his best though!
I don't think it is likely to be Broadway bound without some major reworking.
I saw Bounce in DC and was underwhelmed. It had moments - but too few of them. The big problem was that there wasn't much of a connection between the brothers. It was fine, just not Sondheim at his best... Gavin Creel was at his best though!
I don't think it is likely to be Broadway bound without some major reworking.
I sing for myself. I sing when I want, whenever I want to, just for me. I sing for my own pleasure. Do you understand that?
#155
Posted: 8/31/04 at 10:42pm
I had my first day of school today. We were suppossed to write a short essay for homework on a book, film, artwork etc that influenced us and the way we view the world. I went overboard and wrote a little too much, but as I did it on "Finishing the Hat" I thought I would share with you all:
Sunday in the Park with George: "Finishing the Hat"
The music and lyrics of Stephen Sondheim have always reached me. They influence me culturally, artistically and emotionally. His words, and the music that so innately carries them, are treasure troves of wisdom and human insight. Many of his shows, and songs from his shows, have influenced my way of thinking. Some have influenced my way of feeling. Some have influenced, and deepened, my appreciation for art, culture and theatre. Many of his songs have influenced me in all three ways, but perhaps none as much as "Finishing the Hat" from the musical Sunday in the Park with George.
Sunday in the Park with George deals with the sacrifices artists go through and luxuries they must concede. Act One deals with George Seurat, the real-life painter of the grand impressionist masterpiece A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte, on his quest to complete his masterpiece. George is an artist much conflicted, for he finds it hard to divide his time between his work and his girlfriend, Dot. Both are dear and precious to him in many ways. Yet he seems to be drawn to the importance of his painting more so than the needs of his girlfriend. In the end, Dot leaves him. And the song he sings contemplating, "Finishing the Hat" is both simplistic and complex. It begins with his questioning her and all of those who are not artists, as he is:
Yes, she looks for me----good
Let her look for me to tell me why she left me---
As I always knew she would.
I had thought she understood.
they have never understood,
And no reason that they should.
But if anybody could... (p. 70)
George has always known that Dot's leaving him was inevitable. Yet, he does nothing to prevent it, for his painting is more important. This spoke to me in volumes, for many times in a person's life he is faced with a difficult choice to choose between two things that mean so very much to him. And once your choice between which is more important, there is no going back. And this lyric touched me both emotionally and analytically, for it made me examine the moral issue of choosing between such important aspects of one's life: love and art, or creation. Creation often makes one feel as though their life now has a purpose. Yet love makes ones life worth living.
Perhaps the thing that moved me most in that particular lyric is Sondheim's changing the pronoun when George sings, "I had thought she understood. They have never understood." It at this point that George has now labeled her. He has made from a person, "she", into a label, "they". George has clumped Dot, a non-artist into the group of people and are non-artists. This made me realize that how ever hard it may be, artists often must detach themselves emotionally from anything that is not their work. And then an artist becomes obsessed with his work, just as George does as he sings:
Finishing the hat,
How you have to finish the hat.
How you watch the rest of the world
From a window
While you finish the hat (p. 70)
Painting has consumed George's entire life, and perhaps this is what makes him a true artist. Complete and utter devotion to his work. This particular aspect of art that Sondheim alludes to, utter loyalty to your craft, touched me emotionally. Because I want to possibly be a musical theatre composer/lyricist when I graduate from college, I found this opinion, that be to be an artist you must fully devote yourself to your work, rather hard to take. Surely one can spend adequate time with other people and not lock themselves up with their work. But perhaps it is so that the mark of a true artist is complete loyalty to your art. This realization has not made me want to be a composer any less, but it has hit me with the harsh reality of what that life is like. and George's complete devotion begins to consume him:
Studying the hat,
Entering the hat,
Reaching through the world of the hat (p. 70-71)
The particular verbs that Sondheim chooses express an artist's constant and never-ending search for perfection. The artist must always want to make his work better and better. And this must make his complete loyalty even deeper than before. But George himself feels his loyalty is not ill-spent:
But the woman who won't wait for you knows
That, however you live,
There's a part of you always standing by,
Mapping out the sky,
Finishing a hat...
Starting on a hat...
Finishing a hat...
Look, I made a hat...
Where there never was a hat... (p. 71)
There are two essential points to this set of lyrics which stuck me as both obvious cliches, yet at the same time profound and moving. First, that an artist's work is never done. He is always adding on or starting anew. This, again, requires that the majority of his life be devoted to his art. But the greatest thing that this passage answers is, was it worth it? Was all the devotion and endless hours spent on your work worth it all in the end. Worth the sacrifice? Worth the lost relationships? Worth the constant devotion? And the answer is yes, it is. For George has "made a hat where there never was a hat." He has, as true artists do, brought a little light into the world through his own personal sacrifice. and this made me realize that, I do want to be a true artist when I am older, despite the sacrifices on the way. Not many people would be willing to do that and devote their life to their art, but perhaps that is why true artists are so incredibly rare.
Sunday in the Park with George: "Finishing the Hat"
The music and lyrics of Stephen Sondheim have always reached me. They influence me culturally, artistically and emotionally. His words, and the music that so innately carries them, are treasure troves of wisdom and human insight. Many of his shows, and songs from his shows, have influenced my way of thinking. Some have influenced my way of feeling. Some have influenced, and deepened, my appreciation for art, culture and theatre. Many of his songs have influenced me in all three ways, but perhaps none as much as "Finishing the Hat" from the musical Sunday in the Park with George.
Sunday in the Park with George deals with the sacrifices artists go through and luxuries they must concede. Act One deals with George Seurat, the real-life painter of the grand impressionist masterpiece A Sunday Afternoon on the Island of La Grande Jatte, on his quest to complete his masterpiece. George is an artist much conflicted, for he finds it hard to divide his time between his work and his girlfriend, Dot. Both are dear and precious to him in many ways. Yet he seems to be drawn to the importance of his painting more so than the needs of his girlfriend. In the end, Dot leaves him. And the song he sings contemplating, "Finishing the Hat" is both simplistic and complex. It begins with his questioning her and all of those who are not artists, as he is:
Yes, she looks for me----good
Let her look for me to tell me why she left me---
As I always knew she would.
I had thought she understood.
they have never understood,
And no reason that they should.
But if anybody could... (p. 70)
George has always known that Dot's leaving him was inevitable. Yet, he does nothing to prevent it, for his painting is more important. This spoke to me in volumes, for many times in a person's life he is faced with a difficult choice to choose between two things that mean so very much to him. And once your choice between which is more important, there is no going back. And this lyric touched me both emotionally and analytically, for it made me examine the moral issue of choosing between such important aspects of one's life: love and art, or creation. Creation often makes one feel as though their life now has a purpose. Yet love makes ones life worth living.
Perhaps the thing that moved me most in that particular lyric is Sondheim's changing the pronoun when George sings, "I had thought she understood. They have never understood." It at this point that George has now labeled her. He has made from a person, "she", into a label, "they". George has clumped Dot, a non-artist into the group of people and are non-artists. This made me realize that how ever hard it may be, artists often must detach themselves emotionally from anything that is not their work. And then an artist becomes obsessed with his work, just as George does as he sings:
Finishing the hat,
How you have to finish the hat.
How you watch the rest of the world
From a window
While you finish the hat (p. 70)
Painting has consumed George's entire life, and perhaps this is what makes him a true artist. Complete and utter devotion to his work. This particular aspect of art that Sondheim alludes to, utter loyalty to your craft, touched me emotionally. Because I want to possibly be a musical theatre composer/lyricist when I graduate from college, I found this opinion, that be to be an artist you must fully devote yourself to your work, rather hard to take. Surely one can spend adequate time with other people and not lock themselves up with their work. But perhaps it is so that the mark of a true artist is complete loyalty to your art. This realization has not made me want to be a composer any less, but it has hit me with the harsh reality of what that life is like. and George's complete devotion begins to consume him:
Studying the hat,
Entering the hat,
Reaching through the world of the hat (p. 70-71)
The particular verbs that Sondheim chooses express an artist's constant and never-ending search for perfection. The artist must always want to make his work better and better. And this must make his complete loyalty even deeper than before. But George himself feels his loyalty is not ill-spent:
But the woman who won't wait for you knows
That, however you live,
There's a part of you always standing by,
Mapping out the sky,
Finishing a hat...
Starting on a hat...
Finishing a hat...
Look, I made a hat...
Where there never was a hat... (p. 71)
There are two essential points to this set of lyrics which stuck me as both obvious cliches, yet at the same time profound and moving. First, that an artist's work is never done. He is always adding on or starting anew. This, again, requires that the majority of his life be devoted to his art. But the greatest thing that this passage answers is, was it worth it? Was all the devotion and endless hours spent on your work worth it all in the end. Worth the sacrifice? Worth the lost relationships? Worth the constant devotion? And the answer is yes, it is. For George has "made a hat where there never was a hat." He has, as true artists do, brought a little light into the world through his own personal sacrifice. and this made me realize that, I do want to be a true artist when I am older, despite the sacrifices on the way. Not many people would be willing to do that and devote their life to their art, but perhaps that is why true artists are so incredibly rare.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#156
Posted: 8/31/04 at 10:48pm
Very nicely done.
BSoBW2: I punched Sondheim in the face after I saw Wicked and said, "Why couldn't you write like that!?"
#158
Posted: 8/31/04 at 10:55pm
'Finishing The Hat' is one of my favorite songs. I was very moved by it the very first time I heard it and each time since it just gets to me more and more. I think people who often have to work in solitude (writer, painter, composer) can feel that the song expresses their struggle, to a certain degree. Thanks for sharing the essay with us, Priest.
Updated On: 8/31/04 at 10:55 PM
#159
Posted: 8/31/04 at 11:05pm
BT: Your views are the exact views of all the reviews I've read. But as with all things Sondheim, a cult develops, and sooner or later (pun intended, and hopefully, the former) it'll make its way to NY. I wonder if he'll rework it anytime soon...
#160
Posted: 8/31/04 at 11:11pm
I'll be the first to admit that Sondheim has a cult...I'm kind a member...but in exchange you have to admit that it's his best shows that get the most attention. I don't see a million productions of Saturday Night just because it's written by Sondheim.
#161
Posted: 8/31/04 at 11:16pm
"Finishing The Hat" was one of my favorite songs to sing back when I was doing piano bars. I love "entering the world of the hat." What a great image and a perfect description of getting involved artistically in something.
THE BIG VOICE: God or Merman?
THE BIG VOICE: God or Merman?
#162
Posted: 8/31/04 at 11:16pm
But since it's been "rediscovered" it had quite a few productions in the past few years. Though, obviously, not as many as Forum, ALNM, et al. And it's one of his earlier works, which also get less play. After all, it took forever for The Frogs to get back onto a stage...
#163
Posted: 8/31/04 at 11:18pm
...not really back onto a stage.
More like out of a pool onto a stage.
More like out of a pool onto a stage.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#164
Posted: 8/31/04 at 11:31pm
A very nice piece of writing, Priest -- something that a college student would be quite proud of (you're well gifted far beyond your years).
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
Updated On: 8/31/04 at 11:31 PM
#165
Posted: 9/1/04 at 12:07am
Thank you. That means a lot coming from you. It could use some polishing, but it was only a 30-minutes assignment.
Anyway, this isn't a thread about me, it's athread about Sondheim.
So, anybody else have a particular song of his that moved you in astounding ways?
Anyway, this isn't a thread about me, it's athread about Sondheim.
So, anybody else have a particular song of his that moved you in astounding ways?
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#166
Posted: 9/1/04 at 12:20am
So, anybody else have a particular song of his that moved you in astounding ways?
I was playing "One More Kiss" from FOLLIES on a cruise ship one evening. From way in the back I heard someone singing the words. Since no one had ever done that on this particular low-budget line, we met, talked, and 19 years later we are still together.
My experience with his songs began when I made my way to Manhattan from the south. I had never been very involved in theatre, except for a short stint at a dinner theatre in Dallas where we did revues and served prime rib. Mostly, my background was rock, gospel and folk.
I got my first piano bar job on a fluke and filled the night by reading from a fake book, sight reading. I did not know any theatre songs nor did I know any jazz classics. I learned these songs by the way they looked and felt on the page and in my hands. The first composer that "got me" was Sondheim. My first "big" song that actually got little bits of attention was my rendition of "Not While I'm Around" which I sang as a R&B soul song. (I had heard the song before but didn't remember it well enough to remember how it was "supposed" to be played, so I just played it as if I'd written it myself).
And because I learned his songs this way, my first impression of Sondheim is composer of really cool soul songs. His chord structures are similar to those found in great soul music. Major sevenths and suspended 6ths and 2nds. Plus, he writes with great passion. The characters are cool on the surface but roil beneath it.
NYMF presents The Big Voice: God or Merman?
I was playing "One More Kiss" from FOLLIES on a cruise ship one evening. From way in the back I heard someone singing the words. Since no one had ever done that on this particular low-budget line, we met, talked, and 19 years later we are still together.
My experience with his songs began when I made my way to Manhattan from the south. I had never been very involved in theatre, except for a short stint at a dinner theatre in Dallas where we did revues and served prime rib. Mostly, my background was rock, gospel and folk.
I got my first piano bar job on a fluke and filled the night by reading from a fake book, sight reading. I did not know any theatre songs nor did I know any jazz classics. I learned these songs by the way they looked and felt on the page and in my hands. The first composer that "got me" was Sondheim. My first "big" song that actually got little bits of attention was my rendition of "Not While I'm Around" which I sang as a R&B soul song. (I had heard the song before but didn't remember it well enough to remember how it was "supposed" to be played, so I just played it as if I'd written it myself).
And because I learned his songs this way, my first impression of Sondheim is composer of really cool soul songs. His chord structures are similar to those found in great soul music. Major sevenths and suspended 6ths and 2nds. Plus, he writes with great passion. The characters are cool on the surface but roil beneath it.
NYMF presents The Big Voice: God or Merman?
Updated On: 9/1/04 at 12:20 AM
#167
Posted: 9/1/04 at 12:23am
Sondheim's chords are astonishing in their maticulousness.
And NOT WHILE I'M AROUND remians one of my favorite songs ever written. Ever.
And NOT WHILE I'M AROUND remians one of my favorite songs ever written. Ever.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
#168
Posted: 9/1/04 at 9:09am
Priest - you gain more and more respect from me and from most of the people on this board daily - your writing regarding Finishing the Hat had me in tears...I can't get through that show without losing it, most times,...and I often think that when the time comes for my mother to pass away, the lyrics to Children and Art will be all I can concentrate on, because those are my mother's sentiments exactly. Perhaps thats why I am compelled to continue on in my performing career (after a 4 year break) because, as a 42 year old Gay man, I may never have or adopt children - but I can always strive to create art...
"I don't really get the ending,all i can go with is when after several months,Judith saw Pat sang,and later she kissed him on the toilet,after that the story back to where Pat went down from the stage after he'd sung,and he went to the italian lady.I just don't get it,what Judith exatcly meant when he kissed Pat that she had seen,and did Pat end up together with The Italian Lady?Please help me,thank u very much!"
Quote from someone on IMDB in reference to a movie he/she didn't understand. Such grammar!
#169
Posted: 9/1/04 at 9:14am
The first time I heard Every Day a Little Death....I'm still trying to recover.
Everybody goes down well with beer.
#170
Posted: 9/1/04 at 9:57am
No matter how badly my day is going if I listen to "Move On" I can somehow find the strength and energy to keep moving forward. Sondheim is a mainstay on my ipod, I rely on his lyrics to inspire me, to comfort me, to amuse me and most of all to amaze me.
I sing for myself. I sing when I want, whenever I want to, just for me. I sing for my own pleasure. Do you understand that?
#171
Posted: 9/1/04 at 10:06am
I remember on our final day of the Sunday in the Park tour - our wonderful company manager gave us each a gift of the lyrics to Move On typed out and copied - a simple thing - but so wonderful to refer to in life. Those lyrics mean so much to me now (as do so many others of Sondheim's)...I often wonder how different my life would be had I never heard of him or his music...
"I don't really get the ending,all i can go with is when after several months,Judith saw Pat sang,and later she kissed him on the toilet,after that the story back to where Pat went down from the stage after he'd sung,and he went to the italian lady.I just don't get it,what Judith exatcly meant when he kissed Pat that she had seen,and did Pat end up together with The Italian Lady?Please help me,thank u very much!"
Quote from someone on IMDB in reference to a movie he/she didn't understand. Such grammar!
#172
Posted: 9/1/04 at 10:16am
Yes VERY nicely done, priest- I don't know exactly how old you are, but I bet my AP (college level) English teacher would have been very impressed with that as well (just in case you wanted to know 
).
And I agree on "Not While I'm Around", I just love putting the concert version of Neil singing it on while I'm going to sleep...
). And I agree on "Not While I'm Around", I just love putting the concert version of Neil singing it on while I'm going to sleep...
#173
Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:36am
"I was playing "One More Kiss" from FOLLIES on a cruise ship one evening. From way in the back I heard someone singing the words. Since no one had ever done that on this particular low-budget line, we met, talked, and 19 years later we are still together."
What an adorable story, Steve. Maybe I should start singing Sondheim songs next time I'm out and see if anybody joins in .
What an adorable story, Steve
. Maybe I should start singing Sondheim songs next time I'm out and see if anybody joins in .
#174
Posted: 9/1/04 at 11:55am
AHHHH! I'm on vacation checking the boards on a crummy computer in a crummy hotel when I see more Sweeney posts! I'm a little late in posting my Sweeney comments, but a glance at my icon can tell you my opinion of that show. Sweeney Todd is a beautiful and intricate show with a dark and interesting plot that will draw you in.
In regards to Bounce. It was okay. I just expected more plot, better songs. The whole thing just felt like something was missing. Don't ask me what it was. Sondheim will always be dear to me, but not this musical. i got the CD anyway and the songs are ok. If you're interested you should listen to it, you might enjoy it. Just don't expect anything close to Sweeney Todd.
In regards to Bounce. It was okay. I just expected more plot, better songs. The whole thing just felt like something was missing. Don't ask me what it was. Sondheim will always be dear to me, but not this musical. i got the CD anyway and the songs are ok. If you're interested you should listen to it, you might enjoy it. Just don't expect anything close to Sweeney Todd.
Keep the peace, take care of each other, and may you find your promised land.
-TJST
#175
Posted: 9/1/04 at 6:40pm
RedHot---thnak you. That means a lot.
And newyorkstate, I'm a sophmore in high school.
And for the sake of discussion, what do you all think is Sondheim's worst musical? (Granted his worst would usually always be another's best, but some of his shows aren't as masterful as others)
I would probably say ANYONE CAN WHISTLE. The score is astonishing for the most part. But the book just weighs down the show too much. It is a shame. This show could have been fantastic with such a great score, despite ther occassional "bad" song in it.
And newyorkstate, I'm a sophmore in high school.
And for the sake of discussion, what do you all think is Sondheim's worst musical? (Granted his worst would usually always be another's best, but some of his shows aren't as masterful as others)
I would probably say ANYONE CAN WHISTLE. The score is astonishing for the most part. But the book just weighs down the show too much. It is a shame. This show could have been fantastic with such a great score, despite ther occassional "bad" song in it.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
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