Theaters Inaccessibility

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 9:46am

Im confused. So people complain about high ticket prices (which, for a family coming in to see a show, I completely understand because they have to pay for travel, dining, AND tickets which is NOT cheap). However, shows have to make money. Bottom line. So how do you make ticket prices less expensive but also assure the production makes enough money to keep running?

[dramamama611]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 12:19pm

What exactly are you confused by? There not being an easy answer?

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 12:54pm

dramamama611 said: "What exactly are you confused by? There not being an easy answer? "

I’m wondering what people are thinking theaters should do. Because if they don’t propose something, it will continue to be this way. You can’t get everything you want when you want it. And I’m a young person saying this. I’m younger than 30 and understand that you have to work for things, save for things, and if you can’t…people miss things. So what do people propose theaters do?? 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 12:59pm

I guess those people should make better life choices and get better jobs if they want access to luxury items like Broadway theater tickets. The organizations that run things are very comfortable with their choices. That will never change. 

[veronicamae]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 1:16pm

^^ basically that.

It's probable that every single person who thinks "Broadway is too expensive" doesn't understand how much it actually costs to run a show, and that it costs that much because unions are protecting their members with a fair and living wage (see also: the thread about why shows aren't filmed and released more often).

So, the only real solution is more education in terms of how the industry works. Those people who think they should be allowed to see Mean Girls for free because "theater should be for everybody" are sadly misguided with a good dose of entitlement.

I wrote a lengthy post about this on tumblr when someone asked me why Mean Girls wasn't going to reopen, because "they thought they were selling a lot of tickets." Some 300+ theater fans on the platform commented on or reblogged it saying they had no idea it cost so much to run a show every week or how long it takes to start turning a profit, etc. It's truly a lack of understanding of the industry workings that results in this, and unless those who demand free Broadway learn about it and want their faves to get paid for their work, it's never going to change.

(Of course, there are a million ways to experience cheap/affordable live theater - it's just not the theater these particular people want.)

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 1:40pm

So, the only real solution is more education in terms of how the industry works. Those people who think they should be allowed to see Mean Girls for free because "theater should be for everybody" are sadly misguided with a good dose of entitlement.

Brilliant comment, agree completely. 

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 1:47pm

@veronicamae - would you be willing to provide the link to your tumblr post? I would like to read it.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 1:59pm

I think more education - which I can see why they’d want less on this subject - about cheaper ticket options. I’ve seen a ton of Broadway and off Broadway shows and never paid more than $50-ish with TDF, Rush, Lottery, or just buying the cheaper seat options - like with Company.

One thing that could be done is a slight discount for tickets bought in a bundle. For instance, I bought a hotel for my upcoming nyc trip and went with the hotel that gave me a discount for staying more than one night.

[veronicamae]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 2:04pm

Rumpelstiltskin said: "@veronicamae - would you be willing to provide the link to your tumblr post? I would like to read it."

Sure, it's here.

And I agree re: learning how to find affordable Broadway tickets is just as - if not more - important to the end goal here. I'm always doling out advice to folks on where to look for discounts (including checking this board for codes!), TDF, TKTS, rush/lotto/cancellation, etc. It's a commonality that people google "Broadway tickets" and end up on Broadway.com with its insanely inflated prices or only think $400 tickets exist for every show, etc.

I'm not sure why more shows don't bundle tickets as experiences. It's like...almost nonexistent as a practice? I wonder if there's a reason that makes it too complex or something.

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 2:18pm

I would think especially for something like a Disney show where you know it’ll mostly be families. But then it goes back to, well, they’re clearly still making money as is so why should they care.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 2:21pm

Just a bit of context in addition to what has been said...

1. Ticket prices are set by the rules of supply and demand, not costs. 

2. "Inaccessible" is relative. For many New Yorkers, a movie is inaccessible. 

3. As noted, there are a wide range of prices for Broadway shows. No, not for the ones that are in high demand, but for the rest, whether through discounts, TDF, paper, lotteries, SRO, etc. 

4. Many/most shows have at least some accessibly priced tickets.

5. For the most part (i.e., not counting the NFPs), Broadway is a business. Businesses in capitalist countries have an obligation to their shareholders to make money. Most Broadway shows don't make money but the obligation remains, even if it translates into losing as little as possible. 

6. If you don't like our economic system, work to change it. If you decide to do this, let me know where, when, and how, and I will try to join you.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 2:29pm

As usual, I think we're coming at this from too narrow an angle. The answer isn't necessarily to make Broadway less expensive. Nor is the answer to just try to get people to shut up about wanting Broadway to be less expensive. The answer is to de-monopolize Broadway's clout and resources. We need to put more money toward arts education, foster arts institutions across the country, give local companies the resources they need to put on high-quality theatre, and our culture needs to shake off this insidious idea that good, worthwhile theatre can only happen on Broadway. When people feel they are entitled to Broadway, what does that impulse stem from? It stems from the fact many people are under the impression that "Theatre = Broadway" and "since theatre should be accessible, Broadway should be accessible." But if we give people to access to meaningful, well-funded arts programs right where they live in their own communities - especially programs that foster new talent, and let artists make a living - then this won't be as much of a problem.

If/when this happens, Broadway will still be here, and people will still be drawn to it for a variety of reasons. And yes, tickets will probably still be expensive. But I don't think people will feel as outraged or entitled, because they will recognize Broadway for what it is: a commercial enterprise in one neighborhood of one city. 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 4:09pm

Sutton Ross said: "So, the only real solution is more education in terms of how the industry works. Those people who think they should be allowed to see Mean Girls for free because "theater should be for everybody" are sadly misguided with a good dose of entitlement.

Brilliant comment, agree completely."

Oh my gosh I agree completely as well!! 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 4:09pm

SouthernCakes said: "I think more education - which I can see why they’d want less on this subject - about cheaper ticket options. I’ve seen a ton of Broadway and off Broadway shows and never paid more than $50-ish with TDF, Rush, Lottery, or just buying the cheaper seat options - like with Company.

One thing that could be done is a slight discount for tickets bought in a bundle. For instance, I bought a hotel for my upcoming nyc trip and went with the hotel that gave me a discount for staying more than one night. "

Exactly!! People think it’s so expensive, but if you use discount websites, discount codes, there’s no age restriction on those! 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 4:11pm

HogansHero said: "Just a bit of context in addition to what has been said...

1. Ticket prices are set by the rules of supply and demand, not costs.

2. "Inaccessible" is relative. For many New Yorkers, a movie is inaccessible.

3. As noted, there are a wide range of prices for Broadway shows. No, not for the ones that are in high demand, but for the rest, whether through discounts, TDF, paper, lotteries, SRO, etc.

4. Many/most shows have at least some accessibly priced tickets.

5. For the most part (i.e., not counting the NFPs), Broadway is a business. Businesses in capitalist countries have an obligation to their shareholders to make money. Most Broadway shows don't make money but the obligation remains, even if it translates into losing as little as possible.

6. If you don't like our economic system, work to change it. If you decide to do this, let me know where, when, and how, and I will try to join you."

Thank you for this. THIS is what people need to be more aware of. 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 7:49pm

Sutton Ross said: "I guess those people should make better life choices and get better jobs if they want access to luxury items like Broadway theater tickets. The organizations that run thingsare very comfortable with their choices. That will never change."

To imply people can't afford theater tickets (or a movie ticket for that matter) is due to poor life choices is pretty ridiculous and a little bit gross.

 

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 8:02pm

Yes, but didn’t something happen with the economy? I mean when you hear older people involved in theatre now talk about going to Broadway in the 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s it almost does sound like they were skipping school and paying for a movie ticket yet they were seeing a Broadway show. It didn’t sound prohibitively expensive.

Like a kid today couldn’t just cut school or take their allowance or lawn cutting money and take a train into the city and see a show. Something happened that made Broadway prices inflate significantly greater than wages.

Like Hogan said it’s more about fighting for better wages than lowering Broadway prices. CEOs need to become better at making less and paying employees more. Maybe that extends to Broadway producers too.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 8:05pm

To imply people can't afford theater tickets (or a movie ticket for that matter) is due to poor life choices is pretty ridiculous and a little bit gross.
 

Yet, completely accurate. Reality can suck sometimes. 

Like a kid today couldn’t just cut school or take their allowance or lawn cutting money and take a train into the city and see a show. Something happened that made Broadway prices inflate significantly greater than wages.

Exactly. Great thoughts, Bettyboy. 

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 8:13pm

Sutton Ross said: "To imply people can't afford theater tickets (or a movie ticket for that matter) is due to poor life choices is pretty ridiculous and a little bit gross.


Yet, completely accurate. Reality can suck sometimes.

Like a kid today couldn’t just cut school or take their allowance or lawn cutting money and take a train into the city and see a show. Something happened that made Broadway prices inflate significantly greater than wages.

Exactly. Great thoughts, Bettyboy."

No. Not accurate at all really. As Bettboy's post illustrates. What drove broadway ticket prices up and made them more inaccessible has nothing to do with people's "poor life choices". 

 

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 6/27/21 at 8:57pm

People chose what they do with their money. I know people who did not have kids because they wanted a gorgeous home, premium seats and to travel the world. I also know two young married teachers that know their limitations and know that they cannot spend a weekend in NYC as a family of four going to a Disney shows and dinner afterwards. Life is about choices. 

It's my opinion, it's based on logic, financial literacy and no, it won't be changing regardless of how "gross" you think it is. Feel free to have another one, though! 

 

 

 

[Impeach2017]

Posted: 6/28/21 at 1:30am

It's not just the Broadway theater that is slipping away from a growing portion of our society.  

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 6/28/21 at 2:10am

Sutton,

When most people hear the term “poor life choice,” one generally views it as a major aspect of life that could change things drastically. And yes, while I am pretty damn sure you’re going to find some asinine way to say that you’re right and I’m wrong, that still won’t change the fact that people view that particular phrase in a particular light. 

Poor life choices have nothing to do with whether or not one has kids or doesn’t. Hell someone can be single and not be able to afford Broadway prices regardless of whether or not they want to go. The truth is, it’s all about finances. Hogan was right when he pointed out that inaccessibility is relative to a given person’s situation. Say a family of four wants to go to the movies one night. In New York City, the average price for a movie ticket is 17 bucks a pop. You’re looking at 68 dollars total. And, that doesn’t include any potential popcorn or other snacks that may be be purchased. For some, that’s a pricy outing and. I would agree with that. It’s not always about having the money but more how you choose to spend it. 

[SouthernCakes]

Posted: 6/28/21 at 3:10am

Agreed.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 6/28/21 at 9:15am

Sutton Ross said: "People chose what they do with their money. I know people who did not have kids because they wanted a gorgeous home, premium seatsand to travel the world. I also know two young married teachers that know their limitations and know that they cannot spend a weekend in NYC as a family of four going to a Disneyshows and dinner afterwards. Life is about choices.

It's my opinion, it's based on logic, financial literacy and no, it won't be changing regardless of how "gross" you think it is. Feel free to have another one, though!

Ok Mr. Roxy.




"

 

[tmdonahue]

Posted: 6/28/21 at 9:30am

This is self-serving but if you want to know more about the financial structure of professional theater, I recommend our book Stage Money Second Edition.  We wrote it because although we'd been lifelong theater goers, we didn't understand the financial structure of professional theater.  The second edition was in publication when the pandemic started and so doesn't have anything to say about that or the future, but it gives a good, quick general background to the jobs, sources of money, risks of investment, unions, ticket prices, etc.