Tick Tock- Company- Page 3

[darquegk]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 8:17am

After Eight and I have disagreed before and agreed before, but I owe no fealty to or against them.

In the meantime, can we talk about Company and Michael Bennett and "Tick Tock" instead of about board power politics?

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 8:46am

I agree with that, to a degree -- depending on how much weight you put on the Bobby/Kathy park scene, I think that can really hold its own as Kathy's moment in the "trilogy." Plus, that's where the show really sets up, IMO, that Kathy is the girl that got away.

The Bobby/Kathy park scene is part of the trilogy of small scenes showing the three girlfriends during Another Hundred People. Marta sings the first verse, then we get the small scene with April and Bobby (in a movie theatre, for the concert). Then the second verse of Another Hundred People, then comes the park scene with Bobby and Kathy. Then the last part of Another Hundred people, followed by Bobby and Marta's scene where she talks about how much she loves NY and how uptight he is.

Kathy's park scene isn't her big featured moment. It's part of that trilogy of small scenes during the song.

I have to say that honestly I didn't even consider the "balance" involved with the three girlfriends until Sondheim mentioned it. Then I realized they're introduced in a trio (You Could Drive a Person Crazy). Then you have Another Hundred People (Marta's big moment), plus three small scenes with each of them. Then you have April's scene with Bobby that ends with Barcelona (April's big moment), and in the middle of that scene you have Kathy's solo dance (Tick-Tock, her big moment).

I actually think April is slightly more "featured" than the others, because she has the apartment "butterfly" scene AND the duet (Barcelona) with Bobby. Slightly more stage time, perhaps.

Still, the idea was to balance these three characters in Bobby's life within the play.

Take out "Tick-Tock" and the balance is definitely off.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 8:57am

If audience numbers are as After Eight suggests, Company would still be running today...

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 9:19am

I just know if he hates it, it must be good.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 9:38am

But what about the stuff he actually likes?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 9:46am

"Just trying to provide a little sorely-needed balance here, and, just as importantly, to represent the views, not of the diehard Sondheim brigade"

I think you do need to make distinctions. I'm not a diehard Sondheim fan. I've stated more than once that Marry Me A Little does not belong in Company. I've also stated that I hate Act 2 of "Sunday in the Park" and I think "Passion" should be on the list of the world's crappiest musicals. I think "A Funny Thing Happened" "Into the Woods" and "A Little Night Music" should be produced on Broadway at least every ten years just like opera brings back classics and the British regularly perform Shakespeare.

There has been a move in recent productions to make Bobby bisexual. I think directors want to cut Tick-Tock because it doesn't flow with the bisexual Bobby. But when you see the dance done correctly, it's one of the most sexual moments in musical theater.

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:07am

I can't remember where I read it (or heard it?), but Sondheim was furious about the idea of making Bobby a bisexual. That's not what they wrote, nor is it what they intended.

I believe he went so far as to pull the rights to a theatre who tried to add that to the show.

EDIT: I think that was why the book scene was added between Bobby and Peter. They put the idea out there and had Bobby walk away from it.

Updated On: 7/2/13 at 10:07 AM

[sparrman]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:12am

Maybe someone could answer a basic but important question that I don't know the answer to: Is "Tick Tock" in the new, revised, official version of the show, or not? Because if it's not, is it really kosher with the powers-that-be to put it back in?

Or are numbers like Tick Tock and Marry Me a Little "optional", like the Judge's "Johanna" in Sweeney Todd?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:23am

"I can't remember where I read it (or heard it?), but Sondheim was furious about the idea of making Bobby a bisexual. That's not what they wrote, nor is it what they intended."

Which is funny because I think he is one of the wimpiest artists out there in relation to how his music has been (mis-)used.

[newintown]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:24am

The last I knew, the "official" licensed version is basically the rotten Roundabout version, with the awful generic new arrangements & orchestrations by David Loud. "Tick Tock" is not automatically included with the materials.

However, if you know what you're doing, you can ask for the incredibly better Tunick orchestrations and "Tick Tock" (although I believe there are about 16 measure that have been permanently deleted from what you hear on the OCR), and MTI will provide them.

[ljay889]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:26am

According to MTI, the licensed version is "The 1996 TCG Version, representing an amalgam of the 1995 Broadway Revival and 1996 Donmar Warehouse Version."

There's also an option to use a larger instrumentation.


Updated On: 7/2/13 at 10:26 AM

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:27am

"The last I knew, the "official" licensed version is basically the rotten Roundabout version, with the awful generic new arrangements & orchestrations by David Loud."

Does it come with instructions on what to do when your leading man can't sing Bobby's music?

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:29am

To be clear (and further explain), Sondheim's issue with Bobby being bisexual or possibly gay is that it undermines the entire point of the show. This isn't a "confirmed bachelor," struggling with his sexual identity or orientation. It's about a man who loves women but can't commit to them. He can't take that big step into a relationship and invite that longterm "company" into his life.

But if Bobby also had questions about his sexual identity, that's a different issue, and his struggles with women could easily be attributed to the fact that he is "just not that interested" to take it to the next step.

Sondheim and Furth wanted this show to be about a man who can't or won't allow that level of love and romantic intimacy into his life. He's not ready emotionally (at least until the end of the show).

But it's not a struggle of how much he does or doesn't like women (or men).

I can see exactly why that pissed Sondheim off. That's not what the struggle (the main conflict) is about.

EDIT: And Goth, I agree he has been wimpy about the film adaptations of his work. I think because he feels that film is "not his playground," he defers to others and is willing to try something new. On stage, he is open to revisals of the material to a point, as long as it's working to focus or improve what was already there. He's not open to changing the point of one of his shows, however.

Updated On: 7/2/13 at 10:29 AM

[newintown]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:40am

"Does it come with instructions on what to do when your leading man can't sing Bobby's music?"

It's all been moved down to Boyd Gaines' easy key, so if your Bobby can't sing it, he probably can't sing anything, which would lead one to wonder why he was cast...

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:46am

My question (and I've posed it here before) is how has no one done a version that uses Happily Ever After at the end of Act One instead of the lovely, but oh so wrong Marry Me a Little?

ETA: I also think Tick-Tock is essential. And I disagree with my beloved emcee...I think it would have worked like GANGBUSTERS in the Doyle version. Anyone who has ever seen Tori Amos straddle and piano bench and bang on the keys knows just how F*CKing sexy that could actually be. Updated On: 7/2/13 at 10:46 AM

[After Eight]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:46am

"Sondheim and Furth wanted this show to be about a man who can't or won't allow that level of love and romantic commitment into his life."

That may well be what they wanted. But if they had succeeded artistically in conveying that, there wouldn't be so much ambiguity in the audience's mind about the character's actual nature, or so many discussions about it on theatre boards like this.

The problem is the character comes off not as a real flesh-and-blood person but as a figment of some writers' imagination. That's why it's difficult for an audience to relate to, care about, and on some level, even understand this person. And that's entirely the authors' fault.



Updated On: 7/2/13 at 10:46 AM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:47am

Oddly, I can't remember one specific place where I read it, either, about Bobby's sexuality. And, actually, I know it's on record somewhere that he isn't gay, but I don't actually know if it's on record that he isn't bi. But yes, that's why the Bobby/Peter scene was added -- to refute the assumption some were coming away with, which was that Bobby was not married because he was gay.

I saw an all-male Company several years ago, which was apparently done without permission, and then the director ended up having to write a letter of apology to Sondheim.

b12b -- that's not the set of three I was referring to, but yes, agreed. I feel like I'm not making sense, maybe. Back on the first page (I think), a poster mentioned that Tick Tock is necessary to complete the girlfriends' existing in the triplicate of monologue, song, dance, and I was saying that Tick Tock is not, in my eyes, the most important moment for Kathy (or Kathy and Bobby, as it were, and maybe that's what makes it most important), because I think it's that scene between them in the park. Of course it's not a "big moment" in the way a solo dance number is, but I feel there's so much weight in the park scene because of how much it gives us about their relationship. (It's actually also my favorite scene in the show.

Updated On: 7/2/13 at 10:47 AM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:51am

My question (and I've posed it here before) is how has no one done a version that uses Happily Ever After at the end of Act One instead of the lovely, but oh so wrong Marry Me a Little?

Can they get the rights? I'd see that. I'd try it.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:52am

best12bars, I didn't mean to imply the changes he's made to stage work. I meant allowing his music to be in tv commercials and have the lyrics changed. To me that cheapens the artistry, but I guess a guy's got to pay the mortgage.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:53am

'Can they get the rights? I'd see that. I'd try it.'

I would hope so...because then Being Alive comes organically from the earlier thought. Marry Me a Little just diffuses the energy of Act One and doesn't really put Bobby in a dynamic place. It's just so conditional, where Happily Ever After is strong (if bitter).

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:59am

It's been so long now, I can't even remember how Act I ended originally.

Did it end when Amy runs after Paul to get married?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 10:59am

"Marry Me a Little just diffuses the energy of Act One and doesn't really put Bobby in a dynamic place"

That's EXACTLY it. You've just come out of the wonderful frenzy of "Not Getting Married Today" and then you're handed "Marry Me A Little" which just pulls all the life out of the end of Act 1.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 11:01am

Also, Bobby has just proposed to April...and she rejects him. It's the STRANGEST thing to fly right into Marry Me a Little. Happily Ever After would be entirely motivated and pose a really great question to the audience at the end of Act 1...can Bobby pull himself back from the edge of this pit of bitterness?

[best12bars]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 11:01am

By the way, when did the "wedding singer" switch from Jenny to Susan ... and why?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/2/13 at 11:06am

"By the way, when did the "wedding singer" switch from Jenny to Susan ... and why?"

Oddly enough, when the original cast reunited for the Lincoln Center concert in the 90s this change was in place.