What about an all black version of FOLLIES?- Page 2

[sparrman]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 10:27am

I'm not sure this sort of "all black" production is at all viable in this day and age.

But Ben Vereen as Buddy!
Updated On: 6/21/07 at 10:27 AM

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 10:51am

Just give it to Donna.

In the hypothetical all-black Follies?

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 11:59am

yes. That's a joke... read a little earlier about Donna in "blackface".

[Jon]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:00pm

August Wilson is rolling in his grave.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:05pm

Well I mean if you've got Ben Vereen you might as well put Donna in blackface. As great as he is in a lot of things, I get minstrel from him a lot when he performs...just big eyes and jazz hands.
Updated On: 6/21/07 at 12:05 PM

[WordedGrace]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:20pm

Wow! Black face? Um, do you know offensive that is to just suggest it?? Blacks? Where are you from? Who's your pa? The Black face was the worst..don't care if you're joking look up the history of black face and how it was/is offensive.

Geez people! And no an all black version of Follies wouldn't work, sure the singing would be fantastic but it wouldn't work. Not written from african american point of view but there've been plenty all black productions of shows, sure. But, were without people raising eyes?.

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 12:20 PM

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:24pm

I don't have big eyes or jazz hands but still....

It really pains me to have to come down on the same side as Jazzysuite, but he was referring to minstrel acts, which were indeed all about big eyes and jazz hands. Unless you actually are a minstrel, I'm not sure why you're taking offense at that.

If you're going to create threads like this then some of you who respond need to SERIOUSLY learn not all black people like the terms, "blacks."

That's fair enough, but can't the same be said for the term African-American?

ETA: Even though WordedGrace edited out the lines I quoted, I'm leaving my post as is.

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 12:24 PM

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:25pm

I don't get the "all black" ideas anymore. Broadway has proven to be color blind, recent examples include Audra McDonald in 110.

I don't understand how all black is more acceptable than all white. Maybe ten years ago it may have seemed effective but now I don't think it's necessary.

[WordedGrace]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:28pm

Kringas, I edited my original message. I was a little ticked from speed reading them all but then I reread when and changed to what I found most offensive. Black face/minstrel acts have similiar significance in terms of things done to be offensive. Don't believe me look it up. I don't need to debate racial whatevers with people I don't know online. Not my style, so I won't!

As far as African-American versus blacks..c'mon I'm not going to debate that one. I'm a person of color, blessed, and happy. That's all that matters.

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:28pm

Broadway has proven to be color blind, recent examples include Audra McDonald in 110.

Well, in the case of Follies, you rarely, if ever see a non-white face in it. Sure, the 2001 had Carol Woods in it, but I think that's the exception more than the rule.

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 12:28 PM

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:35pm

>> The premise would be that they are returning for the demolition of something like The Cotton Club.

Considering that was a club built mostly for the entertainment of rich white folks who wanted to come slum in Harlem every now and then, I'm not sure that's such a wise idea. It would automatically lay a political veneer on everything that the source material probably cant support.

However, if it were something like the Apollo, *then* you might have something.

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:35pm

I think it could work. Though I don't think it will EVER happen. BUT I would like to see Vanessa Williams as Phyllis - even in a regular production.

And Ben Vereen is about 10 years too old for Buddy. Remember the couples should be late 40's to early 50's.


And I don't think LEAVE YOU is a belter's song at all. Alexis, Diana Rigg, Lee Remick aren't/weren't the best singers. And certainly not "belters."


Updated On: 6/21/07 at 12:35 PM

[elmore3003]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:48pm

Why? Is it about a Cotton Club reunion?

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:00pm

What an enlightening contribution.

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:28pm

OK LOL first of all Worded Grace LOL you're so busy being offended by things that you didn't stop to think that...maybe I'm black and I STILL find Ben Vereen a bit minstrel-like in his performance...and I think the rediculousness of Donna in black face is comical...until someone actually does it...BUSTED.

Also, Do all things black have to have an african american perspective? How would one write from that perspective? Do we have to talk about struggling and race? Do we have to be rocking and moaning a spiritual in the corner? Can't there just be a story about a couple and not have it deal from any perspective?!

Secondly,

ljay889

If "Could I Leave You?" Isn't a belters song...what is it? When thinking rage in musical theatre one thinks belt. It certainly shouldn't be sung in one's head voice. Just because non singers have sung it doesn't mean it's not meant to be belted...I refer you to Dee Hoty, who's prob done my fave version so far (I haven't seen Donna do it). I'm sure Donna belted the crap out of it. It's a belters song. If not belter than what? What voice would you classify it as?
Updated On: 6/21/07 at 01:28 PM

[C is for Company]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 3:09pm

"Can't there just be a story about a couple and not have it deal from any perspective?!"

I think that hits the nail on the head. So many people look for excuses to "make it work" like it needs their reason for it to do well. Who cares? Does it make sense that people burst into song? I don't think the purpose of the thread was created to find a necessary or effective reason except to say that there are a lot of fantastic performers out there who for some reason have not been given a shot at this or many other shows.

And if one wouldn't find an all black cast as acceptible as they would an all white cast, then why not go ahead and do it? There are certainly more "offenses" of all white productions being mounted than all black ones.

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 3:23pm

I saw an all asian production a few years back and it was good. Race had nothing to do with the strengths or weaknesses of the produciton.

So an all black productin ...I'd pay to see it.

An all black Color Purple is pretty silly. Follies isn't about being white in America, while Color Purple is a lot about being black in America.

Can you imagine Diahann Carroll singing I'm Still Here? WOW!

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 3:29pm

Good point, BFB. And speaking of all Asian productions, what about The National Asian American Theatre Co (currently doing a production of Falsettos)? Do those that having been bitching about a hypothetical Follies with a cast of African-Americans, do you find that theatre company inherently racist as well?

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 03:29 PM

[Jazzysuite82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 3:37pm

I was sooooo glad to hear about that production. First of all the fact that there are asain AND indian actors makes me smile. I mean so often we hear about color blind casting, race, affirmative action or whatever and people think Black. WHY?! All these things apply to asians, latinos, and indians. I'd LOVE to see an Indian Mary Poppins. There are more minorities out there that don't have ALL "whatever" casts.

[morosco]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:03pm

No one has mentioned Norm Lewis for this fantasy cast?

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:04pm

Whoops. Never mind. He's older than I thought.

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 04:04 PM

[C is for Company]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:06pm

Norm for Ben would be great, what a voice he has. He and Audra would make such a perfect Too Many Mornings. But I think I'd still prefer Brian Stokes Mitchell, he needs to come back for a concert, show, whatever.

How about Darlene Love for Carlotta? I think she'd be outstanding as well.

[WordedGrace]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:15pm

"OK LOL first of all Worded Grace LOL you're so busy being offended by things that you didn't stop to think that...maybe I'm black and I STILL find Ben Vereen a bit minstrel-like in his performance...and I think the rediculousness of Donna in black face is comical...until someone actually does it...BUSTED.

P.S. aside from any context a show is written shouldn't it just be about the performance versus race?

Jazzysuite, I don't care if you're green, nor that your spelling sucks. That's not the point. I didn't say I was offended I said it was offensive. There's a big difference. I am not looking to argue buddy just was making a point.

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 04:15 PM

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:16pm

And yet all you really keep saying when you repsond is how you don't have to respond.

[best12bars]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:27pm

I'd love to hear Diahann Carroll sing "I'm Still Here."