#76
Posted: 8/16/11 at 11:57pm
I don't remember making this thread, LOL.
Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony? — Page 4
#77
Posted: 8/17/11 at 12:10am
Perhaps your statistics will make this clear to me.
The Tony Award voters decide who deserves the award. He has had six nomination and zero wins. That is 0 for 6. The Tony voters have decided that someone else was deserving of the award more so than Schwartz, on all six occasions that he was nominated for it. That seems like a pretty cut and dry statistic to me, 0 for 6. The Tony voters have yet to decide he deserves to win the award, so he has not won it yet. I fail to see how that is in anyway a difficult concept.
The Tony Award voters decide who deserves the award. He has had six nomination and zero wins. That is 0 for 6. The Tony voters have decided that someone else was deserving of the award more so than Schwartz, on all six occasions that he was nominated for it. That seems like a pretty cut and dry statistic to me, 0 for 6. The Tony voters have yet to decide he deserves to win the award, so he has not won it yet. I fail to see how that is in anyway a difficult concept.
#78
Posted: 8/17/11 at 12:56am
Thank you for the response, jimmy (and I apologize for calling you "johnny" on the previous page).
I see now: Schwartz' Tony losses are your statistic. Fair enough.
Personally, I think arguing that Tony losers are always undeserving is like arguing that bad things only happen to bad people. This isn't to argue for Schwartz or against those who beat him, just to recognize, as has been discussed elsewhere, that Tony voters are motivated by various factors in addition to quality, that judgments made at the end of a season may lack perspective as to what will pass the test of time.
Bottom line for me: I'm not up all night worrying that Stephen Schwartz doesn't have a Tony Award. Lots of people don't, including talented people with long-running shows.
I was just surprised by the animosity against Schwartz here. I don't put him in the same class with Sondheim and the Gershwins, but I don't see any reason to trash the guy. His lyrics may be overly and self-consciously "clever", but they aren't stupid. His music may be derivative at times, but it has given pleasure to a lot of people.
I see now: Schwartz' Tony losses are your statistic. Fair enough.
Personally, I think arguing that Tony losers are always undeserving is like arguing that bad things only happen to bad people. This isn't to argue for Schwartz or against those who beat him, just to recognize, as has been discussed elsewhere, that Tony voters are motivated by various factors in addition to quality, that judgments made at the end of a season may lack perspective as to what will pass the test of time.
Bottom line for me: I'm not up all night worrying that Stephen Schwartz doesn't have a Tony Award. Lots of people don't, including talented people with long-running shows.
I was just surprised by the animosity against Schwartz here. I don't put him in the same class with Sondheim and the Gershwins, but I don't see any reason to trash the guy. His lyrics may be overly and self-consciously "clever", but they aren't stupid. His music may be derivative at times, but it has given pleasure to a lot of people.
#79
Posted: 8/17/11 at 1:08am
I find his lyrics to be insanely RELATABLE. He may not have the most witty lyrics in the world...but his music/lyrics knows how to reach out to not just theater lovers...but the general public...and that takes alot more skills IMO. Some on here may find it to be just because his music is generic..and they are more then welcomed to say that...but to dismiss it as just bad composing I think is a bit much. You have to give the guy SOME credit for having musicals that are some of the best known shows around.
"Life in theater is give and take...but you need to be ready to give more then you take..."
#80
Posted: 8/17/11 at 1:08am
I find his lyrics to be insanely RELATABLE. He may not have the most witty lyrics in the world...but his music/lyrics knows how to reach out to not just theater lovers...but the general public...and that takes alot more skills IMO. Some on here may find it to be just because his music is generic..and they are more then welcomed to say that...but to dismiss it as just bad composing I think is a bit much. You have to give the guy SOME credit for having musicals that are some of the best known shows around.
"Life in theater is give and take...but you need to be ready to give more then you take..."
#81
Posted: 8/17/11 at 2:33am
I agree with 12 bars about Wicked. Maybe I can understand Ave Q winning the Tony but not for the music and lyrics. I've always considered the choice laughable and a travesty.
And I also have a problem with the animosity directed toward Stephen Schwartz. I hope he wins a Tony. He deserves one. I suspect and hope he will live to see his son Scott, who is a terrific director, win a few.
And I also have a problem with the animosity directed toward Stephen Schwartz. I hope he wins a Tony. He deserves one. I suspect and hope he will live to see his son Scott, who is a terrific director, win a few.
#82
Posted: 8/17/11 at 3:36am
I really enjoyed Avenue Q on tour and have listened to the album many, many times.
But IMO a lot of the score is very Lehman Engel Workshop, where quoting West Side Story lyrics cracks people up.
But IMO a lot of the score is very Lehman Engel Workshop, where quoting West Side Story lyrics cracks people up.
#83
Posted: 8/17/11 at 9:38am
Seems to me that Schwartz is still suffering from being the young composer who did extraordinarily well early in his career and others have penis envy. Godspell, Pippin, did very well and he was young when they debuted. Storming out of the Tonys is bad form. In a way his success is his worst enemy, again, penis envy. It's not like the Tonys are sacrosanct in their awards. There are any number of examples of awards that were given to less deserving shows/performers. Catherine Zeta Jones won for "A Little Night Music," and her performance didn't come close to Christianne Noll's in "Ragtime" that year. ALNM did well in a bad economy because it's a popular show and had named talent, so they gave it to CZJ.
#84
Posted: 8/20/11 at 5:37am
I think you're right, Oldschool, that Schwartz inspired a lot of envy with so much early success. He also happened to come along and write pop-influenced scores at a time when the Broadway establishment was very much resisting the post-Tin Pan Alley pop styles (rock/R&B/disco, etc.).
How many Tony Awards did the original Broadway production of Hair win? None, but I think it's hard to argue there was a more influential show that year.
How many Tony Awards did the original Broadway production of Hair win? None, but I think it's hard to argue there was a more influential show that year.
#85
Posted: 8/20/11 at 8:59am
He will win a Tony after he takes that ridiculous wig off his head. It looks like a small animal died on his head. He's not fooling anyone. Just be yourself-gay and bald-people will warm up to you.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#86
Posted: 8/20/11 at 9:03am
This thread's title should be changes from "Will Stephen Schwartz ever win a Tony?" to "Why I Hate Stephen Schwartz".
What does his sexual orientation or wearing a hair piece have anything to do with winning a Tony?
What does his sexual orientation or wearing a hair piece have anything to do with winning a Tony?
#87
Posted: 8/20/11 at 10:14am
I don't hate Schwartz-quite the opposite. I just think when people are fake the energy reads to others that they are insecure or hiding something and therefore people will feel alienated. Obvious rugs and clandestine sexuality can make people feel you are insecure about yourself.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#88
Posted: 8/20/11 at 10:40am
But how he choses to live his life is HIS business. If a toupe makes him feel better...so what? If he choses to not officially disclose his sexuality, why is it anyone's business to disclose otherwise?
There are gads of actors, directors, CEOs, athletes that all for their own personal reasons choose to keep that infomation to themselves -- why do people feel they know better choices for individuals. Sure, it might not be the way you would do it, and that's fine.
There are gads of actors, directors, CEOs, athletes that all for their own personal reasons choose to keep that infomation to themselves -- why do people feel they know better choices for individuals. Sure, it might not be the way you would do it, and that's fine.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#89
Posted: 8/20/11 at 10:47am
"I don't hate Schwartz-quite the opposite. I just think when people are fake the energy reads to others that they are insecure or hiding something and therefore people will feel alienated. Obvious rugs and clandestine sexuality can make people feel you are insecure about yourself."
And what does any of that have to do with his music or "if he'll ever win a Tony?"
I don't mean to pick on just you, BB, because you're far from the only one who "went there" in this thread.
I repeat from my earlier comment: what does this have to do with anything remotely relevant to the thread subject?
EDIT: It sounds like so many of you here want to deny him a "potential future award," because you don't like the way he chooses to live his personal life. Think about that for a minute. Would you want the same thing done to you?
And what does any of that have to do with his music or "if he'll ever win a Tony?"
I don't mean to pick on just you, BB, because you're far from the only one who "went there" in this thread.
I repeat from my earlier comment: what does this have to do with anything remotely relevant to the thread subject?
EDIT: It sounds like so many of you here want to deny him a "potential future award," because you don't like the way he chooses to live his personal life. Think about that for a minute. Would you want the same thing done to you?
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 8/20/11 at 10:47 AM
#90
Posted: 8/20/11 at 11:08am
You're not picking on me B12B-I was just jumping into the melee. I think he deserves a Tony and can still get one-plenty of time. I just think when you have a lot of money you can buy a decent rug.
"The sexual energy between the mother and son really concerns me!"-random woman behind me at Next to Normal
"I want to meet him after and bang him!"-random woman who exposed her breasts at Rock of Ages, referring to James Carpinello
#91
Posted: 8/20/11 at 11:41am
Now that Stein is gone, he and Strouse are back at work on RAGS, for the umpteenth time. Argh.
#92
Posted: 8/20/11 at 1:18pm
Maybe if he produced?
I like your imperturbable perspicacity.
#93
Posted: 8/20/11 at 2:14pm
Maybe if he played Rebecca?
#94
Posted: 8/20/11 at 3:38pm
THIS:
But how he choses to live his life is HIS business. If a toupe makes him feel better...so what? If he choses to not officially disclose his sexuality, why is it anyone's business to disclose otherwise?
and THIS:
It sounds like so many of you here want to deny him a "potential future award," because you don't like the way he chooses to live his personal life. Think about that for a minute. Would you want the same thing done to you?
Thank you. Finally some common sense. The rest of you are obnoxious carping about a man's sexuality and his personal choice to wear a toupee.
But how he choses to live his life is HIS business. If a toupe makes him feel better...so what? If he choses to not officially disclose his sexuality, why is it anyone's business to disclose otherwise?
and THIS:
It sounds like so many of you here want to deny him a "potential future award," because you don't like the way he chooses to live his personal life. Think about that for a minute. Would you want the same thing done to you?
Thank you. Finally some common sense. The rest of you are obnoxious carping about a man's sexuality and his personal choice to wear a toupee.
#95
Posted: 8/20/11 at 4:30pm
I just want to briefly address his relationship with others in the business. We have attended numerous ASCAP/Disney new musical workshops, which he spearheads. He has given an extraordinary amount of his time and energy to his fellow artists, both new and established, and never had any difficulty getting the support of his peers to help him in his endeavors. Additionally, he has never publicly behaved at these functions in any other way than with complete interest, enthusiasm, and professionalism.
#96
Posted: 8/20/11 at 4:58pm
Someone's private sexuality should only become an issue if he or she makes it an issue through hypocrisy. Nobody here has mentioned Schwartz campaigning against gay rights, so I don't see why what he does in the bedroom need concern me. (Do I think we gay people should come out as a political act? Yes, of course. But let's remember that human identity is a product of myriad factors and show a little understanding for those who make different choices than we.)
For what it's worth, Stephen Sondheim was sometimes criticized rather harshly for not being more openly gay in the revolutionary days after Stonewall. He started talking about a boyfriend around the time of Passion, but said little on the subject before then. He still hasn't written a significant gay character (some would argue about Bobby in Company, but not I), nor has he made the subject an overt theme in his work.
To my knowledge, he never denied being gay either. And considering that I'm in my 50s and he is two years older than my parents, I think his reticence was largely a product of his generation.
So do we take back his first six or so Tony Awards? I think not.
For what it's worth, Stephen Sondheim was sometimes criticized rather harshly for not being more openly gay in the revolutionary days after Stonewall. He started talking about a boyfriend around the time of Passion, but said little on the subject before then. He still hasn't written a significant gay character (some would argue about Bobby in Company, but not I), nor has he made the subject an overt theme in his work.
To my knowledge, he never denied being gay either. And considering that I'm in my 50s and he is two years older than my parents, I think his reticence was largely a product of his generation.
So do we take back his first six or so Tony Awards? I think not.
#97
Posted: 8/20/11 at 5:23pm
Edited because obviously I don't read English very well.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Updated On: 8/20/11 at 05:23 PM
#98
Posted: 8/20/11 at 5:25pm
He was talking about Sondheim, who I assume was not "out" when he won his first several Tonys.
#99
Posted: 8/20/11 at 5:29pm
Wow...thanks for pointing that out...my brain totally did not register that!
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#100
Posted: 8/20/11 at 6:06pm
Yes, I was talking about Sondheim, dramamama. He wasn't married with children, but neither was he exactly explicitly "out" when he was winning Tonys for Company, Follies, et al.
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