black broadway shows- Page 2

[TheBalladeer]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 11:36am

I don't think the issue is the discription of a musical featuring black performers, (i.e. "Black Musical" or "African-American Musical") it is the concept of the need to have a black musical, just for the sake of one, in this day and time. When this is done, it seems as if producers and creative teams want Blacks to have their musicals, just so that they don't have to accomidate for them or any other minorities in "their" musicals. I personally don't believe that, and haven't had any experiences where I was not accepted in a role for my race alone, thank god, but I find this to be a legitimate claim. It is not easy for every person of color to get roles because of who they are.

Cheers,
The Balladeer

Updated On: 10/21/03 at 11:36 AM

[DoReMi]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 1:55pm

I agree 100% that using the term black musicals is wrong. And saying that there a roles that only whites or blacks can play is even more insulting. And it is racist.

If you're too blind to see that, I fell sorry for you.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 3:27pm

The thought process in this thread is obtuse, to say the least. What is "wrong" or "racist" about the term black musical?

The Wiz is a black musical. Mama, I Want to Sing, is a black musical. Your Arms Too Short to Box With God is a black musical. Raisin is a black musical.

People of different cultures always create art that is specific to their experiences. ESPECIALLY when they don't see their own lives reflected back to them by the art created by the dominant culture.

Using the term black musical is no more racist than the term black hair salon. People who think that it's wrong to have specific works that speak to specific experiences live in an imaginary world.

[Amneris]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 3:32pm

i dont think there should be "A" show for one certain race...I think every ethnic background should be able to portray roles if they are good enough. People will forget about "color" if the person does their job. (That may of sounded wrong but damn it's hard to right out stuff on a board without it coming out the wrong way) grrrr Updated On: 10/21/03 at 03:32 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 4:42pm

I don't wish to see a white Effie Melody White.

I do not wish to see a black Eugene in Brighton Beach Memoirs.

Why? Because the truth of the piece is sacrificed to political correctness.

Does that make me a racist?

Posted: 10/21/03 at 4:47pm

I agree with you on that Robbie....


I think shows that are not gender specific are fine but would it be odd to have Audra McDonald play Eva Peron? Vocally she could/would be amazing but you are taking a real live preson and changing their very being....

[DoReMi]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 5:10pm

FindingName:

i'm very sorry that you have a small mind and cannot see outside of what has balready been presented to you.

I have seen productions of The Wiz where the casting is mixed and I very much enjoyed them. Is there anything in that show's script that says all the characters must be black? NO.

With your racist think, we would have been deprived of Brain Mitchell in Kiss Me, Kate and Man of LaMancha. We would not have had a black, Asian or Hispanic Epionne in Les Miz. We would not have had a black Phantom.

Just because something was presented one way doesn't mean you must always follow. And your sterotyping of people in shows by their race is plain offensive.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 5:24pm

Oh please. Stop trying to pick a fight with him. He wasn't saying that at all.

And do you want an example of a 'black' show that loses its power when done multi-culti? ONCE ON THIS ISLAND. The issue involved in that show is one of light-skinned black people vs. dark-skinned black people. I have seen productions done w/ every ethnicity known to man with the big tension of the piece being 'class'. It simply does not work.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 6:01pm

King Hedley was a show (closed before we could use our tickets) about the black experience as are all of August Wilson's works. This does not make them any less compelling. Theater is theater but it would be a little unbelivable to have a show about the black experience performed by anyone else. There are shows where the roles are interchangable (Man of La Mancha, The Wiz, Guys & Dolls etc). Others obviously cannot be as per the above example.

[King Stevos]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 7:02pm

I don't know robbie, If someone went all the way with certain productions....like ragtime...just switching the ethnic casting...it might prove to be...umm...thrilling and intoxicating.

STEVOS

Posted: 10/21/03 at 7:23pm

Stevos, I have to say that it would be odd to switch the casting. It is a historical musical and it would not make sense if they were cast otherwise....
I mean could 1776 be done with an all asian cast or african american cast?
If this is the case, then why can't Belle from Beauty and the Beast be a guy? Would they allow that?
I am all for multi-casting but wehen yuo cast it totally against history it is not right.

I mean would one do a musical about Amistad with all caucasions as the slaves?

[King Stevos]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 7:37pm

Actually that would be interesting, Bring in Rosie for the beast!

And Once on this Island does lose power, but the "white" version is offered for production.

And I would love to see a 1776 either multiculutral, and in the time period of like 1976, or even see an entire black cast. I think that that would be a great twist on the show.

Box, I was just thinking about the wonderfull implication that Ragtime with a switch casting, would have like a Zanna Don't for racial issues. African Americans would be the supreme order, and caucasions would be the opressed minority. thats the world that the musical would be based in with the change of casts, I just think that possbily that change could speak miles to us.

sTEVOS

Posted: 10/21/03 at 7:45pm

I have to say that 1776 would lose its complete power if done in 1976. It is a historical play with music. Maybe I am a tradionalist in some ways but I would hate to see a 2001: A CAbaret Oddessy (Cabaret in the future)~~

[King Stevos]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 8:02pm

Maybe then that is our problem, in this debate. I myself am a person that strives against the historical norms. And strive to change things, it is live theater, it may have a source story line, but in the end the skelton of that story line doesn't really give anything about race, or gender, and even time period for that matter.

STEVOS

Posted: 10/21/03 at 9:49pm

I have spent the last several days reading this topic with great interest.

I think it's time that an African American performer shares his opinion.

I think this is a great topic for debate. After reading a majority of opinions expressed here, I must say I am disgusted, insulted and, most of all, repulsed by the narrow minded attitudes that have been expressed here.

I have been a working, Equity performer for 25 plus years. I have done plays and musicals. I was around in the days when these so called " black musicals" came about. The reason they began was to give talented minority performers an opportunity to show their stuff in an acceptable format. Up till the early 1970's, blacks in theater were limited to local black theater companies or "selected" roles. Shows like "The Wiz", "The Me Nobody Knows", "Timbucktu" and others showed the average theater going public that black performers were just as talented. Slowly, we became intergrated into the mainstream of theatrical productions to the point where "race" was no longer placed on many casting notices.

Now..the argument that there are certain roles that MUST be played by certain races is a downright insult and racist. Theater is one of the few art forms where we are asked to break with tradition. Do you really want to see "King Lear" staged as it originally was? The reconstruction of shows allows new view points and revelations. To say we can't have an Asian Evita or a black Teveya is ridiculous. "Whites can't do The Wiz", you say? I've done three production of this show with white lions, Asian tin men and a Hispanic Dorothy. AND IT WORKED folks. Why? Beaucse someone wasn't closed off from the rest of the world and saw what the performer brought as an actor, NOT what COLOR the actor was.

John, you couldn't see how much more powerful a black John Adams or Benjamin Franklin would be in 1776? No. I guess we must not tamper with history, right? So, I guess Patti LuPone is hispanic, right? After all, we can't cast someone in the role based on a real person unless the actor fits the perfectly, right?

Namo, people create art NOT specifically for certain cultures. Art and theater are ment to be shared as a communial experience. I'm truly sorry you cannot see that.

Stevos, thank you for getting it. It's only when we see what the other possibilities are that we can create magic.

If you have any doubts about what I am speaking of, please look to LA's East/West players. A complete Asian theater company that does outstanding musical productions without worrying about the color of an actor's skin. Do you believe they did "Little Shop" a few years ago and had a Jewish, Asian Mushnick?

Well..judging by several of you, that is somthing that should have never happened.



Updated On: 10/21/03 at 09:49 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 9:58pm

It would appear that you have assumed that you are the only African American person who has posted in this thread. Why is that?

[simplywill]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:04pm

ok, wow, there is so much to say and comment on but i know i can't possibly address everything. I am also a black performer, not as seasoned as black birds, but owner of my own beliefs as well.

Some of the situations where roles and race are considered, make for sketchy occasions. I've seen blind casted shows, and for certain roles that have a style, taken from the black culture, its painful to see otherwise playing that role.(absolutely not always) Say in dreamgirls where the style of some of the characters where based and inspired by soul singers of the fifties and sixties, if a caucasian person were to attempt one of those leading roles, also trying to model their voice after the same people, audiences everywhere will, smirk and whisper about how their trying to be black. Its a rough situation in both aspects.

A friend of mine used queen latifah as an example of a mistake racially in casting. his argument was that there is no way that in the 20's there would be a black woman warden. I agreed to a certain extent only to say that they wouldn't have a man in drag as a popular reporter either. again sketchy.

Namo, i think you're getting much too bad a rep for what you're saying. I agree with some of the things. I don't at all think that the term "black musical" is racist, or at least in personal view. If it was said to imply that it is racist to those who aren't black than i have no say, but with me and others like me that i know personally, i find no offense.

Wss2, i don't really know who you are or who you think you are, but the chip on your shoulder is big enough to block the sun. U are the same person who picked a fight with me in another forum, and i just think you enjoy picking fights much more than the actual topics at hand. You, in my eye, are a sad individual.

Stephen, you know i love you right, suggesting norm and billy. U know my dream black performers(male anyway). loving your idea, but by the time it makes it big, i'll be playing on broadway, and those skeezah's will be old news. lol

I'm looking foward to where this forum goes.

Will

p.s. something i didn't hear mentioned; the all black versian of Hello Dolly. any comments on that?

Updated On: 10/21/03 at 10:04 PM

[King Stevos]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:20pm

Blackbirds thank you! I couldn't find a way to say it that well.

Will, buddy, I love ya, and I had you in mind if I ever decided to write the MLK Musical, to bad its been done, but who says I can't make it better and work?

Namo I know that Black Birds isn't the only black performer that has posted on this thread, for instance the baladeer. But. They just haven't seemed to get the idea, that it is theater, and these characters on stage are imaginary, history gives us the story, we do with it, what our imaginations bring.
We change things, would you really have rather seen an all white west side story set in the elizabethan time period? No it just wouldn't have worked. Breaking Cultural norms is how we make our living folks, its how we create the lives of imaginary figures on stage. It's what makes the magic as Black birds said. I would hate for the theater community to ever become so closed minded that Brian Stokes wouldn't be able to play Sweeny Todd in the revival, just because he has black desent, or even Cervantes, if we got stuck in this mind set...where would we be?

What would Nine have been?

What would Parade have been?

In fact what would Fiddler have been?

Do you want to say that a minority could never be Judd in Oklahoma? One of the best I ever saw was in fact our Simply will, and I don't just say that because he's my best friend, being black added something to the role.

Would you never imagine cross culture casting Show Boat? The idea of turning a world upside down is something we can really live on. If not we never would have gotten such a wonderfull story line as Zanna Don't, or all of the many plays that bring in twists. For instance, Goodnight Destimona, Goodmorning Juliet.

Off Soap Box, but may return.

STEVOS

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:31pm

Melanie Griffith IS Lena Younger in "Raisin."

Alec Baldwin IS Song Liling in "M. Butterfly."

John Lithgow IS Herald Loomis in "Joe Turner's Come and Gone."

Delta Burke IS Motormouth Maybelle in "Hairspray."

[King Stevos]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:35pm

Ok, so what will you do with the rest of the casts of the shows? Are you wanting to go all out with it?

STEVOS

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:44pm

Blackbirds,
I am sorry that you find me narrow minded. I would have have assumed that our opinions mattered here. I feel that even if I do not agree with King Stevos or someone (and in many ways I agree with him) I am still allowed to have my very own opinion. I mean that is what this country is about right? Freedom of speech?

Other then that... I have, and I will state it again... if you read over my past postings, you will see that I am a big supporter of multi-ethnic casting. Not a problem with it at all.
Diahann Carroll as Norma Desmond? Great!
Lea Salonga as Eponine? Fabulous!
but these two charactors are fictional charactors. Sure they may be based on someone or something (like Norma) but they are fictional that one can take liberties with casting. And that is fantastic. I have many many roles in mind that I would like to play.
But I guess I would never go out and try for Eva Peron (unless I looked really good in drag) or I would never be cast as Martin Luther King.
Look at the whole scandle with Miss Saigon and the casting of Jonathan Pryce as the Engineer. Was that okay?

Again, I am sorry that you find my feelings narrow minded but I think that I have raised some valid points. You do not have to agree with them. I have no problem with that but unless I cannot defend my opinions, Please do not call me something I am not.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:49pm

I feel that the people who had a problem with the casting of Jonathan Price had a point. Ya see, in a white dominant culture it is inherently racist to cast a white person as a person of color. There is no such thing as "reverse racism," that is a construct created by conservatives to take the power out of the naming of a very real phenomenon.

I'm surprised, or am I, that I seem to be the only person around here who read the long NYTimes article that appeared about six months ago about the success of Black musicals away from the Great - ha ha! - White Way. Blackbirds, I was not suggesting that people create art only for their own niche, I was suggesting that people create art to name their own experience and to see their lives reflected artistically.

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:50pm

King Stevos you wrote:
we make our living folks, its how we create the lives of imaginary figures on stage.

YOU hit the nail on the head. When we create IMAGINARY figures there is no boundaries to what color of the skin they can be. But when we play real people we have to accept that they may have been a certain race.

Now with the East/West Company that you spoke of, Blackbirds... I have seen their shows before -- I grew up in California. I saw their version of Falsettos. (maybe it was another asian acting company...) and I loved it! Thought it was great! Cast was amazing.

[simplywill]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 10:55pm

Stephen, stop the madness, me as one of the better judds. i thank you for your flatery, it will get you everywhere. A racial theme like Zhana Don't. OMG. Nobody is ready for anything like that. Just thinking about it gives me chills. Maybe theres a good riot or two in store. u know how i love those. lol. But wow, flipping the script like that. It would be amazingly influential to both black and white audiences, i think, but theres no doubt will cause a frenzy.

leave it to you to cause contraversy. loving it!

Namo, to add to my agreement and understanding of your point. I think it is immensly important for young people to see themselves as themselves represtented on stage. Look how it influenced John Leguazamo(forgive my mispelling). I know way too many people of color who refuse or turn their head up when musical theatre is mentioned. This is only because they havn't seen themselves properly represented in the most popular of musical theatre venues.

Weird but funny side note, i have a friend that actually didn't find out till the age of 22, that there was another versian of the WIZ. Black people i know when they find something they can relate to they hold onto it. I'm most certain some of my black friends could be more into musicals, if only more of the music and themes could relate to them on an aparently personal level.

Simply Will

Updated On: 10/21/03 at 10:55 PM

[King Stevos]

Posted: 10/21/03 at 11:12pm

John, we are entitled to our opinions, our on this subject, differ greatly.
To me, historical figures sparking future representation, Ben Franklin, Sam Adams, John Kennedy, Booth, Lincoln. etc.

They all become imaginary characters when we decide that we are them, and we decide what they would do in a situation, thats the acting part. A Black man could very well be Licoln in a production, because he is an actor playing someone imaginary no matter how real the source material is, no matter how much we take from history, the true color of the original person, the true religion, w can make them whatever we please. IT IS OUR ART.

STEVOS