black broadway shows- Page 5

[ORPHAN]

Posted: 10/27/03 at 11:12pm

nyunique
i agree with you that flower drum song would be very unual with someone other than a chinese person playing a principal role. There are a few examples of musicals or plays that are particularly sensitive to race. Yet i see nothing wrong with a black actor playing a jew in nazi germany. It is only his color that you must get around. Many of the people selected to play jews in shindler's list were not jewish but their skin color was white so it didn't matter. now in the movies it is unheard of to not cast to type so i only use shindler's list to illustrate the horrible limitations facing a person who may have talent but who's skin is not white. a thousand more roles are written for white actors. Your observation on Flower Drum song is insightful, yet consider that once a musical or play is no longer NEW. anyone should be given a license to interpret a role even a chinese role where the shape of the eyes is the determining factor less than skin color. Many asian actors in Miss Sigon were not vietnamese but their eyes looked right. when the show was NEW asian actors were offended that a white actor was selected over an asian one to play a lead role. They protested because the show was NEW. now if there was a revival the protest would be less vocal. Likewise when dreamgirls was NEW black actors would have protested efie not being black if that's how she was written BECAUSE very few major new musicals are written that give blacks leading roles so when they do come along blacks want them FIRST. but in revival it would be perfectly acceptable and encouraged to cast nontraditionally in order to give the show a twist... ie. A fat white effie as long as she could sing the demanding songs or a japanese effie... if she could make the audience cheer when she sings the soulful songs. Please consider this. my motivation for taking so much time to explore these important questions of race and casting stem from a deep wish that talent be promoted over silly differences between us like color or eye shape or other characteristics that are unchangeable. Curiously, a white actor can wear prosthetics to change the shape of his eyes but an asian actor cant go back the other way. also a white actor can wear black paint to play othello and often did.

[King Stevos]

Posted: 10/27/03 at 11:43pm

If we wanted we could read something into the Green Face used in Wicked, and the Silver used in WOZ.

My opinion still stands that casting non traditional races in parts can really add to a show, trying to state the what if factor...For Instance a white guy being put down in a Black Man's world, could have reached epic proportions. Imagine if that would have happend pre Brown v Board.

STEVOS


STEVOS

[simplywill]

Posted: 10/31/03 at 5:36pm

stevo, for that matter couldn't we make such references and questions about 'what if o.j. was white.'

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/31/03 at 7:55pm

Certain roles calls for certain actors. I doubt a white actor could ( or should ) play Martin Luther King. By the same token, an african american should not do Abe Lincoln. Certain roles are race neutral & some are not. Brian Stokes Mitchell played Man of La Mancha & was just as good as Kiley

[ORPHAN]

Posted: 10/31/03 at 10:00pm

mr. roxy
i just have to believe that a white actor playing MLK would advance the man, his life, his work, his message, and the role into a place that a black actor could not take it. "carrying King's water" is how i see it. Close your eyes and imaging listening to the great speeches delivered by a booming vibrato voice and being moved to tears... then opening your eyes and seeing a man who looks like MLK in every way except the color... i repeat the color of his skin... his skin... The heart and soul doesn't have eyes like that. our humanity is moved by so much more. If the white actor was not convincing in the role he was playing that's different... we (you, me and everyone) would be even more distracted by the fact that he was white or chinese or in a wheel chair, or missing an arm, or blind. In the movies maybe not but theatre is free from those limitations. who would think twice if the performance shook the soul. consider this

[simplywill]

Posted: 11/2/03 at 3:22pm

orphan, i agree to a certain extent, if a man can play the part no matter what race, then he should be able to. But even within roles written for black people, i.e. mlk, even in the black race some people would feel unhappy with a man who was really dark or really light skinned. these are things that most audience members pay attention to and unfortunately for some if not most it keeps them from really receiving the messages of the play because of the "distractions."

people may get angry at me for saying this, but although brian stokes mitchell is a very talented singer and actor, i think one reason why he is the first to play some of these big "nonblack" roles is because of his skin color. If bsm was a dark skinned man i highly doubt he would been given some of these roles. I saw kiss me kate on broadway before i knew who he was and someone asked me if i saw bsm, and i had no clue because i couldn't tell from the first balcony that he was a black man. hey its just my opinion. Truth is we see the skin differences in casting all over the place. Especially in "Once on this Island" the poor are written to be dark skinned, and the rich(daniel, the leading man) are to be light skinned. In Larson's tick tick boom, i don't know if it is written but the role of michael in tick tick boom has been consitantly played by a light skinned man as well. I don't know....

will

[Thetruth]

Posted: 11/3/03 at 12:09pm

Yeah, the whole light skin v dark skin thing will always be a major problem. Well, until we all finally mix together...So who would you guys like to see in non-traditional roles. I vote for Lilias White as Momma Rose!

[ORPHAN]

Posted: 11/3/03 at 10:52pm

simplywill
you are 100% right! and that's just the way it is. No matter where you go in the world the darker people are always the lower class. and BSM is only selected to play non black roles because the producers think of him as racially vague. Then they love saying SEE BSL IS BLACK AND WE CASTED HIM. but they only cast him because he is so light that no one is "distracted" by his blackness. That said, THETRUTH is right when pointing out lilias white as mama rose. If that were to happen the broadway media would love it and jump to her aid with articles and praise (if she did a good job). It is time for another sensational black show (wiz) or a chenoweth rave for a black performer on bway. unfortunately, the great black talent doesn't hang around bway because there is little work other that ensembe slaves or africans or one off moments when the show needs a big black voice to get the audience stirred up. then the performer steps back into the crowd and becomes wall paper. but thats the way it is and may always be. who cares about the color of the performer? the people with the milions of dollars at risk who are afraid to bet it on the chance that the audience may not want to see a show with a black lead. I bet a black woman could really revive GYPSY.

[Thetruth]

Posted: 11/4/03 at 12:30am

Yeah, myself, as a black writer..I sometimes find myself crafting a lot of hit shows that are casted white..and doing like a "black take on them" like how they did with "The Wiz." LOL by the time I get through with the show you can't even tell that it was based on anything else.

[ShawnBQM]

Posted: 11/5/03 at 5:21am

I was reading your paragraph on Miss Saigon & Flower Drum. Could you please explain to me more about the "eyes looking right" for Miss Saigon? I don't think I have a complete understanding on this topic. What are "right"?

[ORPHAN]

Posted: 11/6/03 at 3:42am

shawnBQM
the producer's definition of "right" for Miss Siagon means asian "looking" eyes. We all know what that means. TYPE for the wiz is black or brown "looking" skin. It's all about "type" when casting. To me "right" eyes are eyes that can "see". who cares. but to a casting director "right" means what ever the general consensus is for the character. With Miss Siagon the eyes were so important that any asian "looking" actor was considered. When The Mechanic was first cast and brought over from london the actor playing the role was white with rubber over-lays on the lids even though the character was supposed to be bi racial. Asian eyes was the criteria (and talent) but eyes first. Talent without the eyes no go!

Posted: 11/11/03 at 3:50pm

okay I am going to so get reamed for this....
But I have to agree with both of you. I know that the "right" kind of eyes is a potentally racist/hate kind of comment. BUT, would it be odd to show pictures of blond haired/blue eyed Bui Doi children in the second act opener? (I spelled that sobng wrong didn't I?)

Again, I agree with colorless casting unless it is bound into the script.
And while we are on this topic. What about sexless casting.
I mean would Falsettos work just as well if he had left his wife for another woman?

[aurora1958]

Posted: 11/11/03 at 9:41pm

Dollyprop...I'm so glad you mentioned Pearl Bailey's version of Dolly. That is the the show I saw which made me realize I could do this. I'll never forget sitting there being totally blown away by an entire black cast..I'd never seen anything like it before...I guess it never occurred to me as a black child in the 60's that there was that opportunity. I find myself kind of in the middle on this discussion. As much as I like the idea of blind casting, I can't help but think that sometimes it can be jarring and take away from the experience if suddenly you find yourself thinking, "Naw, wait a minute that doesn't make any sense." And then sometimes I feel it doesn't make any difference such as the redone Cinderella on tv that was totally blind casted.

But I think I would have a bit of a problem believing John Adams sitting in Congress of 1776 being black. I think when you're dealing with true historical characters, that just wouldn't work. Fictional, sure. Can you imagine what would happen if someone did a show on MLK and didn't cast him black? Sometimes I think it does matter.

[King Stevos]

Posted: 11/11/03 at 9:46pm

Actually I can Aurora, which is why I am currently in the process of writing a musical in which the norms of race are switched. PM me for more elab, I don't liek giving my secrets away.

STEVOS

[aurora1958]

Posted: 11/11/03 at 9:48pm

Here again, German Jews, we're talking historical fact. Although there are black Jews, there weren't any in Nazi Germany. I just think sometimes in trying to be fair and equitable to everyone, it can get out of hand. I think many watching would be so busy trying to figure out how that black guy got there they'd forget what they were watching..LOL

[aurora1958]

Posted: 11/11/03 at 9:54pm

Will, I have to agree with you on the light skinned situation with Mitchell. I was just as confused when I saw "Kiss Me Kate" as well.

When I first tried my hand in New York in the late 70's, I ran into the problem that at that time, Roots was still very big, and darker skinned, more ethnic actresses were in demand. I wasn't "black enough" at the time. And ofcourse, I wasn't white so I was kind of stuck. I remember I could barely get a walk on in soap operas...and NOW they're full of actresses who look just like I did. So obviously things are better, not perfect, but better.

Posted: 11/11/03 at 10:54pm

We also can't forget the all black cast of Guys and Dolls in the 70's with Robert Guilleome.

[ORPHAN]

Posted: 11/11/03 at 11:25pm

watch WICKED i'll bet that after idina leaves they cast a black actress with a green face! LOL they want the voice but WHOA YALL we can paint her green and NO PROBLEM who'll know we get the voice the black actress gets the gig. that should shut up that black broadway shows thread on BROADWAYWORLD.COM

[King Stevos]

Posted: 11/11/03 at 11:33pm

Sarcasm Orphan? Or true Spite? 'Tis Cloudy...

STEVOS

Posted: 11/12/03 at 12:19am

No one wants to shut up Broadwayworld.com
And I find this thread to be one of the most interesting and enlightening ones I have seen here. Even if my opinions differ form others we can still debate and change minds. I have changed some opinions due to comments made on the thread.
Lighten up Orphan. It is just dialogue. A discussion never killed anyone.

[cha003]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 5:07am

Is my memory playing tricks or do I remember reading about a US production of Othello with Patrick Stewart playing the title role but the rest of the cast being played by black actors, reversing the usual casting ...

Can someone enlighten me? I'd love to have seen it if it's true...

[King Stevos]

Posted: 11/12/03 at 5:04pm

WOOHOO, if thats true thats a wonderfull way to play it, REVERSE THE NORMS!!!! sometimes the story is enlightend, but I could also see where the story could be damaged. 1776 would be enlightened.

STEVOS

[GhettoBway]

Posted: 10/18/05 at 5:37am

i loved this topic a lil blast from the past