movie projection and sound problem gripe session (HAIRSPRAY and many others...)- Page 2

[JustChillin8908]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 4:10pm

This isn't exactly the same thing, but when I saw The Simpsons Movie yesterday they were blasting Harry Potter so loud we could hear it in our theatre (it was playing right next to ours). The sucky thing is that it seemed to be the loudest during the quieter moments.

[morosco]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 4:10pm

Digital projection uses a digital projector instead of a normal movie theater projector. Film does not run through a projector. Instead the images are sent to the projector from a hard drive, satellite, or even DVD. The improved image quality is quite noticable (and just around the corner is the application of HDTV technology to present an even better picture). Another advantage of digital projection is the fact that the images do not degrade each time it's played back like a fragile film tends to do.

Digital Cinema Updated On: 7/29/07 at 04:10 PM

[ben4]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 6:40pm

Yeah, i saw both Dreamgirls and Pirates of the Carribean in digital projection at the Ziegfeld theater in NY and I have to say it pretty much is the absolute best presentation of a film that you can get. In many ways, it's better than Imax (and also cheaper ticket wise).

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 8:59pm

These reponses are all so informative and illuminating. I honestly didn't no squat about what digital and now will do everything I can to find that venue for any film that matters to me. (Next up: the Taymor Beatle film probably...)

Interesting to hear Mr. Shaiman's woes, because I was neurotic about NOT going to the Ziegfeld to see HAIRSPRAY. Having insisted on seeing DREAMGIRLS there, it seemed damn near compulsive to think it's the only house in the tri-state area where a beloved musical can be enjoyed (in truth, I wasn't picky about PHANTOM or RENT).

So I skipped the Ziegfeld experience for HAIRSPRAY, and 90 seconds into the multiplex nightmare could've kicked myself in the slats. So my "comfort zone" OCD response to demanding the Ziegfeld is entirely justified. I remember waiting to see THAT'S ENTERTAINENT III at the Ziegfeld (sseriously) -- so HAIRSPRAY there was more than justified.

The HAIRSPRAY experience was unsettling, because due to the volume debacle, for 20 minutes I couldn't get wih the rhythm of the film--despite visual evidence that it was wonderful. It was all about my blood pressure rising over the pitiful, base-free volume, and thinking "it's all in my head." But I know better -- hell, Ken Russell's TOMMY blasted me out of a small theater back in the 70s. When we got to "Miss Baltimore Crabs," and it sounded like an AM radio station, I went f--king crazy. Thankfully, when it was elevated -- again, twice -- it really did sound good.

I have a particular affection for the way "You Can't Stop the Beat" knocks me in the stomach, and when HAIRSPRAY began in that diluted sotto voce, all I could think about is how disappointed I was GOING TO BE when we got to the end. Luckily, I was not (though like others I kinda do miss the "Come on you Von Tussles shake your fanny muscles!" moment... but what if I hadn't complained?

[broadway86]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 9:45pm

The exact same thing happened at my showing of Hairspray. Right from the start, the levels were so off, it almost sounded as if Blonsky was singing a cappella. It remained as such until after "Welcome to the 60s".

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 10:20pm

I worked as a projectionist for many years. For the most part people never notice anything odd about a film unless the sync is off. That is hard for many to catch as well. To the best of my knowledge most projection is not computerized. The film is still manually fed through the projector and the audio is the only thing that has changed.

It is VERY hard for me not to expect perfection when I see a film now. A lot of time the picture is out of focus slightly and with my eye it is very upsetting. Most of the time the picture is out of frame. Even slight problems are hard to sit through.

One thing you will notice is that the trailers are spliced together and they are often VERY loud. It was my assumption that film companies were moving away from this. I’m not all that sure if it has happened. But understand that the trailers are often times at different volumes than the actual film. They are tacked on after the reels have come in. Trailers are advertisments so there is only a short time to show off and they use audio as a huge selling point. The projectionist probably uses a standard audio level and if they check at all it is to check and see the trailer has sound. The projectionists RARELY if ever leaves the booth, and the booth is pretty much sound proof so he can't hear it. If the trailer is loud to begin with the audio for the film might not be at that level and thereby be significantly quieter.

In NYC the projectionists are in a union. It is their job to make sure the film is in focus and the audio is perfect. The sync can easily slip up so pay attention closely during trailers. You can still have time to get an usher. These projectionists spend the entire time upstairs so they are on call.

Projection Speak:

In most theaters there is no union so try to get to an usher and say, "the film is out of sync" (A delay in audio causes the audio to be out of sync. {see Singn’ in the Rain}) or "it is out of focus” (The actual movie picture is out of focus and the lense of the projector needs to be adjusted, just like a film camera) "Out of frame” (This is when you see the image being projected slightly off the screen or a cropped image. Sometimes this happens because some films are shown in 35MM and others in 70MM. Often times the simple gyration of the projector will cause this to slip a little.) These are the terms that will get the print in order.

Now for scratches and all of that you need to find a theater that isn't showing the film 300 times a day and keeps the projector room clean. If you see that films are consistently out of focus then it is possible their equipment is bad. Even the newest Cineplex’s are just repurposing old projectors. Films will inevitably get scratched from weeks of use and transport. Try to go early and see a great print.


Even digital projector can be out of focus. Digital projection is great and all but something like Hairspray is probably best when it is projected the old fashioned way, but digital is getting better. Human error will always be a problem so be advised these systems are not perfect.

Most theaters have very good policies, but you need to get out of your seat and say something. Don’t just sit there. I know missing one second of something is upsetting so try and get tickets for later and say let them know of your concern. In most cases it’s just high schoolers working there so use the terms I’ve stated and you will have a much better experience. Like I’ve said, for the most part the general public will not notice subtle things and leave well enough alone if they do. I’ve seen entire groups sit through out of sync films. It’s so strange to me.



Updated On: 7/30/07 at 10:20 PM

[Auggie27]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 10:39pm

Thank you so much, mejust. Required reading, your post, for all film goers. I'm cutting and pasting it, and will remember the specific techno-speak for the myriad projection/audio maladies from here on. We all must remain informed consumers on this score -- when we complain, we help everyone (as I learned on 7/27, when the entire audience benefitted from my irritation.) Thank you again.

[Marc Shaiman]

Posted: 7/29/07 at 11:41pm

well, to get the Union Square experience outa my head, I went to The Ziegfeld and saw the movie tonight

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

if you ever write and record and mix a musical movie, take my word for it...see it at The Ziegfeld!

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 12:43am

:) Funny thing... I used to work for UA and for a short while at the Union Square location (though I began at a Pennyslvania location.)

UA/Regal has a very important mission statement. "Exceed the guests expectations." If you have a problem at the theater let it be known, it is a very good company and I'm sure they will address the situation. The employees are expected to act just like the cast members at Disney World.

I do however see quite a bit of difference in employees in NYC though. In general there seems to be a lack of respect for customers in most minimum wage jobs. Don't believe me? Spend a day at the New Amsterdamn theater and then go into any Broadway house compare your experience. That Disney thing goes a LONG way. At the Union Square theater, just go directly to the manager (they have to listen.)

Posted: 7/30/07 at 6:20am

Marc S wrote:"this makes me sick

And I know it's absolutely nuts, but I swear, and I never say stuff like this, I feel it's homophobia!! I do!!

They will play Transformers or Fantastic Four at ear splitting volumes that you can hear in the next theatre, but a bright, colorful musical they seem to not want to play at the level they are SUPPOSED TO PLAY IT AT! Why? "

To be fair I dunno if ti's homophobic as much as they seem to expect the film to have an older audience who woul dbe more likely to complain about it being loud (or maybe it is just musicals--I reven remember back in the 90s always feeling let down with how quiet the DIsney animated musicals seemed to be compared to other movies)

E

[FeelingElectric]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 7:00am

You are so right Marc. The Ziegfeld is the only place to see a musical movie. I have seen both Hairspray and Dreamgirls there, and had incredible experiences both times. I love the digital projection.

Slightly off topic, I can't wait to see the 30th anniversary engagement of Saturday Night Fever at the Ziegfeld next month!

[Huey's Pop]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 2:01pm

I've seen Hairspray twice at the Arclight in Hollywood -- once in one of their "regular" theaters and once in the big Dome.

Perfection both times.

If ever there is an Academy Award for best place to see a movie, the Arclight will win. Hands down.

[amoni]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 3:04pm

Hey Marc, here is an amazing site called Cinema Treasures. It started out remembrances of great movie theaters of the past like The Roxy and The Paramount and now features almost every theater. I think they would be thrilled to hear your thoughts about hearing and seeing your work on The Ziegfeld's screen. You can go to Regal Cinemas Union Square Stadium 14 and give them a piece of your mind too.

[amoni]

Posted: 7/30/07 at 3:05pm

Well, the link didnt show up, sorry

http://cinematreasures.org/theater/12/