natural talent vs. voice lessons

[Alix7272]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 12:44am

do you think it's possible for anyone to become a great (broadway) singer with enough practice, dedication, and a great voice teacher, or is natural talent that one is born with required? of course an affinity to music helps but i don't mean the type of natural talent that helps you master an instrument, just a naturally good voice. i guess the two go hand in hand a little bit but there is a distinction. just wondering - i think it's an interesting question and i was also wondering in terms of myself b/c i would absolutely love to be on broadway but have no voice but i dance and love to act. i did take voice lessons for a little while and it did help. just wondering what you all thought. can one aquire a great voice and not just improve on an already good one?

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 12:49am

with enough training i'm sure anyone can sing...so give it a try, if all else fails become a pop star (no vocal talent required)

[Alix7272]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 12:52am

very true, but unfortunately not the direction i was hoping for

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:04am

heres my official pearl of wisdom of the morning

there is absolutely no harm in trying, go get a voice teacher, learn the ropes and go to an audition. The worst that will happen is they won't call you back

[Delphine]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:06am

I say that if Anthony Rapp and Daphne Rubin-Vega can make in on Broadway, anyone can.

[StrStruckDreamr9]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:06am

I think that with a great deal of dedication and practice, you can become the best that YOU possibly can be. There are many Broadway singers who are just gifted, but I don't think that one can acquire such a voice. I don't quite think that this can be equated to playing an instrument where, when you first begin, you 're essentially starting from scratch. There is no basis for playing an instrument well, whereas with singing, your given voice is your basis. Sure, playing an instrument comes naturally to some, but you can practice and become just as skilled as them. With singing on the other hand, you sort of just have to work with what you have. You can work with a vocal instructor to better YOUR voice but not have a better voice per se. Does that make any sense at all? lol.

[StrStruckDreamr9]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:06am

I think that with a great deal of dedication and practice, you can become the best that YOU possibly can be. There are many Broadway singers who are just gifted, but I don't think that one can acquire such a voice. I don't quite think that this can be equated to playing an instrument where, when you first begin, you 're essentially starting from scratch. There is no basis for playing an instrument well, whereas with singing, your given voice is your basis. Sure, playing an instrument comes naturally to some, but you can practice and become just as skilled as them. With singing on the other hand, you sort of just have to work with what you have. You can work with a vocal instructor to better YOUR voice but not have a better voice per se. Does that make any sense at all? lol.

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:07am

sh*t i realized how many poats came between this and the post it was a joke about oops

Updated On: 7/22/04 at 01:07 AM

[M J R]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:09am

It's definitely a combination of the two. Singing is nothing more than sustained speech. If one can speak, one can sing. Now, yes there are people who have a hard time matching pitch and some people who are actually tone-deaf (completely unable to vocally reproduce a pitch they are hearing) Barring that you are not tone deaf and you are able to match pitch, you can definitely benefit leaps and bounds by faithful study with a GOOD INSTRUCTOR.

You say you "have no voice" and I'm sure that's not true - the basics of the Italian school of thought on singing (to which I subscribe) is that breath is everything - you must get out of the way of your breath to let it produce the sound. It's likely that through body tension, you're prohibiting your breath and not allowing your full sound to come out. - Even outside of singing, things like yoga and Alexander Technique can make you really aware of where your body carries it's tension and how to get rid of it.

Again, singers who undergo formal training spend years training their EARS - literally classes called ear-training, where you learn intervals and how to easily recognize them and reproduce them - it's the best advice I can give an aspiring singer - train your ears!

We all have our thresholds of capabilities, but if you've not even really tried yet, I CAN guarantee you, without even hearing you, that you have tons of possibility for improvement - just a matter of how much time you want to dedicate to it and how bad you want it.

Hope that helps.

Updated On: 7/22/04 at 01:09 AM

[Delphine]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:12am

Wow, I didn't know any of that. It makes me think that I should try out a series of vocal lessons.

Thank you! Updated On: 7/22/04 at 01:12 AM

[M J R]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:16am

You're welcome - what have you got to lose? Go for it.

[StrStruckDreamr9]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:17am

I have a question similar to Alix's. Do you think that with the proper training, one can improve and strengthen their belt (similar to how to you can increase your range if you work on it) or is what you have, well, it?

[M J R]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:21am

"Is what you have, it?" - No way. I'm gonna cut & paste this from an email i sent someone else that just asked me basically the same thing:

Think of it this way: At the top end of your range is "RED" - bright, bright RED. At the bottom end of your range is "BLUE" - deep, deep blue. In the middle, there needs to be 100 different shades of PURPLE. In order to reach those tones, you need to be able to mix as many different shades of red and blue that you can possibly have. That means developing both ends of your range as much as possible, then bringing the tones in toward the middle.

You can absolutely strengthen your belt voice - you can also absolutely do some vocal damage if you go crazy and do too much yelling...Get with a good teacher and make it clear that this is your goal.

Updated On: 7/22/04 at 01:21 AM

[StrStruckDreamr9]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:26am

Thanks for all the advice, MJR. I really appreciate it.

[M J R]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:28am

last bit of advice: you need lots of sleep to sing well - GO TO BED!!!! lol - g'nite.

[BWayBoy88]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 1:29am

To be really corny and cliche- you can do whatever you set your mind to do.

[FinnFanatic]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 8:35am

Another question about belting:

I'm a college student and I'm directing/music directing a production of "Once On This Island". The girl I have playing Ti Moune has just started belting. She had previously been singing completely in her head voice. It was a strong head voice, however, so it did not sound too airy. At the audition, she sang in her "belt" and it sounded much better for the part. I'm trying to get her to sing in this voice as often as possible in the show. She is very new at it, however, and I don't want her to strain her vocal chords. I do not have much experience working VOCALLY with a belter, so does anyone have any suggestions for warm-ups she could do to prepare? Or just ways of keeping healthy. I keep telling her to stop doing it if there is ANY hint of vocal tension or of sore-ness, but she says so far she's fine.

P.S. The song "Waiting For Life" is a b**ch!

[Alix7272]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 11:46am

thanks everyone. i could see in the few voice lessons i took that it's definately possible to improve - when i was just singing along to a cd in the car my dad commented that my voice had improved - but do you think with enough dedication there's the makings of a lead role from anyone or just chorus.
at the moment it's hard for me to take voice lessons b/c i dance so much and my schedule is pretty booked which kind of sucks but we recorded my voice lessons so i'm going to start listening to the tapes more for practice and see what happens.
thanks everyone!

[bronxboundexpress]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 2:32pm

You either got it or you ain't!

[M J R]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 2:42pm

...but do you think with enough dedication there's the makings of a lead role from anyone or just chorus.


That's entirely too broad of a distinction to make these days. What is a "lead role" kind of voice? You've got everything from Kristin Cheno in Wicked to Harvey Fierstein in Hairspray to Melanie Griffith in Chicago to Hugh Jackman in Boy From Oz. All leading roles - all complete polar opposites when it comes to vocal style and ability.

To speak in really really broad terms, I would say that no, not just ANYONE could be turned into a leading actor on broadway.

[M J R]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 2:44pm

AND - frankly, people who set out with the mindset "I want to be a star on Broadway" almost always find themselves failing. You should want to do the best work you possibly can, and be the best actor you are possibly capable of being - be it on Broadway or anywhere else. That's when things start to happen for you. Discipline, not desire, determines destiny.......:)

[MusicPos2]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 2:55pm

I think the bigger issue there is that not everyone good enough for Bway is on Bway. Just not possible. However, as a voice teacher, I've seen people that thought they couldn't sing turn into excellent singers, but the key is not just drive, it's finding the right teacher for YOU! Classical technique is paramount and should be the emphasis even if you want to be a belter. As far as belting is concerned, please run away from any voice teacher that wants a guy to belt: not physically possible. The laryngeal manipulation that happens when belting for females is not something that guys can do. That's not to say men can't sing that style, it's just not betling. The key to listening for a belter is to listen to whether or not is sounds forced. If it does, and you're not an expert in belting, find someone that is to help them. Another indicator for any type of singing is to look at the neck. If veins are sticking out, then there's too much tension. Let the singer know that, but if you don't know how to deal with it, don't try, you could do damage and could be sued. People here have often asked me about health, and I'm more than happy to answer, but you always want to be sure to have someone that knows listen to you. A great resource is The National Association for Teachers of Singing (www.nats.org).

[TEACHEROFTHEATER]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 2:55pm

to borrow a line from Fosse's film ALL THAT JAZZ,

voice lessons will not necessarily make you a good or great singer......but.............

voice lessons will most definitely make you a BETTER singer.

FinnFanatic, if you want some advice on "belter exercises" or training, etc........kindly private message me and I would be delighted to tell you whatever I know about belter health and techniques...........:)

[My Fair Lady]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 5:25pm

I started voice lessons in November. When I first sang a song teh first thing my voice teacher said to me was that I have natural talent but with work I would become better and I would end up really good. After 6 months of lessons (Summer break in June and I skipped a month) I have improved beyond belief. I've gone from good to great. If you have natural talent then you should take voice lessons to improve your voice because you will end up better.

[shesings]

Posted: 7/22/04 at 5:43pm

i think there is a reason that all big broadway stars still take voice lessons. you can have all the natural talent in the world, but you still need to perfect your art. just how atheletes never stop training. even my voice teacher has a oice teacher. so i say yes to lessons! no matter how good you are now, you can only improve. and really who doesn't want that?!?