shows that flopped that should not have — Page 2

#26

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 1:09pm

Shows produced by not-for-profits like Roundabout, MTC and Lincoln Center, by definition cannot flop or be a hit. They don't have investors to pay back (they're financed by a combination of private and government donations and ticket sales), so they thus, cannot "recoup." "Hit" and "flop" are terms that ONLY apply to purely commercial shows.

Thus, ASSASSINS (both the original and revival), the PACIFIC OVERTURES revival, BERNARDA ALBA, FLOYD COLLINS, BRIGHT LIGHTS, BIG CITY should be left out of this discussion.

And yes, BROOKLYN is considered a flop for Broadway since it did not recoup during its engagement here.

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"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney

#27

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 1:12pm

RAGTIME

#28

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 1:14pm

I think Ragtime is the best show I've ever seen on Broadway, and I even went to the touring production in Minneapolis.

Side Show is a terrific musical, and thankfully not a movie onstage. I loved it.

Seeing A Year With Frog and Toad at the Children's Theatre Company next season.

Seussical. I think it's an absolute delight. I've seen it twice and really love it!

70 Girls 70. Saw the Encores and liked it so much I recommended it to a group of people who have chosen it for next season's playbill.

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NYC Visitor and Broadway Fan

#29

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 1:27pm

Parade & Ragtime hands down.

#30

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 1:28pm

Darling of the Day should not of flopped, but sadly it was during the time the Rock Operas were surfacing and thus the "feel good" musicals didn't stand much of a chance and Darling closed after 30-some performances. But the libretto and score are fabulous. I finally got to see it in Illinois at the Light Opera Works and fell in love it it!

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"Love the Art in Yourself. Not Yourself in the Art." -- Stanislavski

Updated On: 4/19/07 at 01:28 PM

#31

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 1:40pm

Ragtime
Caroline or Change
Gypsy (2003 revival)
Passion

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Happy...Everything! Kaye Thompson

#32

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 1:54pm

Thank you Margo, you beat me in commenting on Floyd Collins, Bernarda Alba etc... I think there's some confusion on what constitutes a flop.

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Yes, we do need a third vampire musical.--Little Sally, Gypsy of the Year 2005.

#33

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 2:25pm

1958's GOLDILOCKS starring Elaine Stritch and Don Ameche and featuring Russell Nype, Pat Stanley, and Margaret Hamilton, with a score by Leroy Anderson and Walter and Jean Kerr, direction by the theatre critic Walter Kerr, and choreography by the famous Agnes deMille. It was a delightful musical that never stopped being entertaining. The CD is still available. Try it!

There are countless others that could be mentioned. Check them out in the indispensable book "Not Since Carrie"(40 Years of Broadway Musical Flops) by Ken Mandelbaum.

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"Madam Rose...and her daughter...Gypsy!"

Updated On: 4/19/07 at 02:25 PM

#34

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 5:10pm

Indeed, Gypsy9. Some some I'm thinking of...

THE GOLDEN APPLE
CANDIDE
THE ROBBER BRIDEGROOM
BABY
MACK AND MABEL

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Praying Decca Broadway will put "Don't Bother Me, I Can't Cope" on CD!

#35

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 5:11pm

Although I consider Ragtime in the top 5 musicals of all time and it has not received the recognition it is due, I hardly consider it a flop.

My nominee - Parade.

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Perhaps it was not a dream.

#36

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 5:13pm

Ragtime is a flop though. It did have a nice run, but at the time of it's closing, it did not return it's investment, so it is a flop.

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I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

#37

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 5:32pm

Scarlet Pimpernel
Jane Eyre
Red Shoes (Yes, it sucked, but damn I love the story...)
Dracula (Just so we could have had Drew Sarich. He ROCKED the role in Europe!!)

Did Secret Garden recoup?

Hugs and peaches,

Maya :)

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I'm okay with being unimpressive. I sleep better.

#38

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 5:37pm

I think that the Light in the Piazza was very underrated. It has one of the most beautiful scores I've ever heard for a Broadway show, and I loved the story and the cast. Was it a limited run at Lincoln Center, or did people just not go to it? I thought it was incredible. Plus, I loved the costumes and sets.

#39

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 5:38pm

Piazza was a Linoln Center Production. it was not-for-profit, so as Margo said, it cannot be defined as a flop or a hit. And yes, it was a limited run that was extended many times.

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I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

#40

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 5:48pm

Caroline, or Change...

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"Picture "The View," with the wisecracking, sympathetic sweethearts of that ABC television show replaced by a panel of embittered, suffering or enraged Arab women" -the Times review of Black Eyed

#41

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 6:26pm

Margo, I actually didn't know that. Thanks.

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Butters, go buy World of Warcraft, install it on your computer, and join the online sensation before we all murder you. --Cartman: South Park ATTENTION FANS: I will be played by James Barbour in the upcoming musical, "BroadwayWorld: The Musical."

#42

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 6:36pm

I don't understand - most people seem to think that the quality of the material is the reason why they flopped. "How could X flop?? It had a strong book and great songs and it was so beautiful!!!"

To me, either because they opened at the wrong place or time, the publicity was bad or just because the show plain sucked, they flopped for a reason, therefore all should have - and this has nothing to do with the quality of the show itself.

It's not like some evil forces made them flop.

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Listen, I don't take my clothes off for anyone, even if it is "artistic". - JANICE

#43

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 6:59pm

they flopped for a reason, therefore all should have

I get your point, but that's kind of like saying that some of these shows that had the groundwork and potential to become profitable should have been mismanaged, though.

Updated On: 4/19/07 at 06:59 PM

#44

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 9:34pm

I forgot about Seussical. That was a great show.

Also ALL SHOOK UP. That was a fun show and it really was not bad. The problem was that it played the Palace Theatre. The biggest (if I'm not mistaking) theatre on Broadway! A show like that could never last a year there. If it played in the Al Hirschfeil (sp?) theatre it would still be running today.

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"I'm tellin' you, the only times I really feel the presence of God are when I'm having sex and during a great Broadway musical." - Nathan Lane - Jeffrey

#45

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 9:35pm

No, The Gershwin is the biggest theatre on Broadway. The Palace is very big, but it's not the biggest.

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I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.

#46

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 9:39pm

It's been said before, but I think Ragtime really deserved to run longer, it's such a good show.

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I'm not a gay stereotype. I'm a coincidence.

#47

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 9:48pm

Ragtime
The Wedding Singer (shut up, I liked it)

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http://www.beintheheights.com/katnicole1 (Please click and help me win!) I chose, and my world was shaken- So what?
The choice may have been mistaken, The choosing was not... "Every day has the potential to be the greatest day of your life." - Lin-Manuel Miranda "And when Idina Menzel is singing, I'm always slightly worried that her teeth are going to jump out of her mouth and chase me." - Schmerg_the_Impaler

#48

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 9:58pm

totally add LaChiusa's The Wild Party to this list...

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"Picture "The View," with the wisecracking, sympathetic sweethearts of that ABC television show replaced by a panel of embittered, suffering or enraged Arab women" -the Times review of Black Eyed

#49

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 10:08pm

Many that people have mentioned, but I'm going to add another checkmark to Gypsy 2003 revival and Brooklyn. Shut up, I love it.

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One time, Patti LuPone punched me in the face...


It was awesome. - theaterkid1015

#50

re: shows that flopped that should not have

Posted: 4/19/07 at 10:30pm

THANK YOU Margo. It drives me crazy when works like Assassins are called flops. While it's true if they had been more of a success they prob woulda moved to an open ended Broadway run (the Frogs comes up a lot in flop threads and is another example).

Also one of the old threads for this called Into the Woods a flop and repeatedly everyone else listed it. I dunno--a show that runs over two years and has a 2 year National Tour doesn't strike me as a flop...

Ragimte similarly lsot a bunch of money (more than Woods) but is it really a *flop*?? For the producers I suppose but... At the least it's a success d'estime isn't it--which means it can't be a flop in my books