Did Rob Marshall think NINE was going to be the next CABARET?- Page 2

[musicalfandukie]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 12:37am

Just like Nine i don't think Follies would find an audience if it were to be made into a movie.

Even the best directors have movies that don't turn out to be so great. I don't get why people are ripping Robb to death since Nine didn't turn out how everyone thought it would. His career is far from over.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 12:39am

That's right. He'll continue to make a movie every four or five years.

And Nine didn't fail because of the material. It failed because it wasn't good.

[A Director]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 4:18am

NINE also failed because of the material. Cinema Italiano is a terrible song with weak music and rotten lyrics. The screenplay is weak with no wit or humor. NINE is a why movie - why make it in the first place? Who did they think would go to see it?

[Roscoe]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 9:42am

"I don't get why people are ripping Robb to death since Nine didn't turn out how everyone thought it would."

NINE turned out pretty well as I expected, I have to say. Although I was shocked at how well Marion Cotillard managed to come off in her role and in her songs. My respect for anyone who manages to do more than just get by in a Marshall film is unbounded.

"His career is far from over."

Alas.

[Daniel2]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 3:14pm

I agree that Nine is better than the reviews have painted it. I think the critical reaction had more to do with critic's reverence to Fellini than with the actual movie. But I also think that, unlike Cabaret and Chicago, Nine is far more difficult to translate to film. It has no actual narrative, it is very much a concept musical. I think a lot of people on Broadwayworld actually want Marshall to fail as a film director, it's jealousy, schadenfreude, wanting to punish him for doing movies and wanting to believe that theatre is superior to movies.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 3:19pm

"it's jealousy, schadenfreude, wanting to punish him for doing movies and wanting to believe that theatre is superior to movies."

Well, I think his sh*tty films have something to do with it, too.

[The Other One]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 3:31pm

Maybe Rob always loved the film version of "Man of La Mancha", and wanted to make a film to equal it. Casting Loren was the icing on the cake.

In that regard one can view "Nine" as a great success.

[Jon]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 5:05pm

One giganitic miscalculation: they (Marshall and his producers) forgot that the movie would be reviewed by FILM CRITICS, not Broadway reviewers. Unlike Broadway show queens, many of these film critics have actually SEEN "8 1/2" and consider it as masterpiece. To them, making a musical remake of "8 1/2" would be like making a musical remake of "Citizen Kane". It's sacrilege. At least Roger Ebert thought so.

[AEA AGMA SM]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 8:57pm

I also think comparing Nine to All That Jazz is a bit, amusing (not sure if that's the word I want, but it will work for the moment)? It's not much of a secret that All That Jazz was pretty heavily influenced by 8 1/2. Seeing as both movies then are coming from essentially the same source material, albeit one more directly than the other, finding similarities, or thinking one was "ripping off" the other, is bound to happen.

[bk]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 11:37pm

While All That Jazz, along with many other films, owes a debt to 8 1/2, it is aesthetically and stylistically a completely other film that has everything to do with Fosse and his aesthetic.

Nine owes a more obvious debt to 8 1/2, being based on the film, but it is aesthetically and stylistically indebted to both the Fellini and the Fosse film - do you see the difference? I can make it clearer by just stating that whatever you think about Rob as a director, he has no original aesthetic or style that is his own. Only his influences show on the screen. Fosse was an original.

[Pgenre]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 11:44pm

BK is totally right.

And I will also add that Fosse re-invented himself with every film. The Fosse that directed SWEET CHARITY was not the same that did LENNY, and the Fosse that did CABARET was not the Fosse that did STAR 80, or even LIZA WITH A Z for that matter. Fosse was a true original and did not repeat himself as much as many think he did, maybe in DANCIN' and BIG DEAL but certainly not in his films or original musicals. His paranoia largely derived from being perceived as such so he was always stretching, though sometimes in at first subtle ways. Whereas some may perceive Fosse as a one-trick pony, it appears that Rob is actually the repetitious one. Clearly, Rob is not Bob.

And NINE could be called ALL THAT JAZZ 2 it owes so much to it, I'd be willing to say as much if not more than 8 1/2 itself. Shameless stealing, even.

P

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/19/10 at 11:51pm

Well, I'm not all that familiar with Nine's book, but I have a hunch he lifted many a scene from 8 1/2. I do wonder if perhaps he thought he was making a modern Fellini movie. It would be sad if he did.

[snarkywannabedreamer]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 1:12am

um... the story is an adaptation of 8 1/2- the semi-autobiographical film by Fellini, so why would it surprise you or be so crazy for Marshall to use 81/2 or Fellini as a visual resource or pay homage to that film and that filmmaker with his version of Nine? Makes perfect sense to me if there are elements of Nine that feel like 8 1/2.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 1:48am

Because he had zero grasp of anything that even remotely felt like Fellini.

[snarkywannabedreamer]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 2:01am

huh?

you wanted to know why it felt like things were lifted from 8 1/2... the fact that the film is an adaptation of a musical that is an adaptation of 8 1/2 is why you felt this way. Clearly he had some grasp of something remotely Fellini-esque to make you see the similarities. Now I am in no way comparing Marshall to Fellini but he does know who he is paying homage to. I think people on here are way to harsh on Marshall. Chicago is a really well made film and to be able to make even one really good film in the current Hollywood system is an enormous task. That one film alone shows that the man has talent as a filmmaker.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 2:18am

Thank you, I'm not retarded.

I realize that Nine descended from 8 1/2. What I meant was that were entire scenes that were verbatim from 8 1/2, scenes I can't imagine being the in the stage version. Scenes, while aping the original from which it was based, don't really fit in this adaptation.

I realize that you seem to equate that with an homage to Fellini, and I guess to some degree it is, but there's not an ounce of Fellini in any of this. I don't think Marshall really understood the source material.

Chicago is a really well made film and to be able to make even one really good film in the current Hollywood system is an enormous task.

Who talks like that? What current Hollywood system?

That one film alone shows that the man has talent as a filmmaker.

Or he could be a fluke. You know, like the monkeys typing Hamlet.

[snarkywannabedreamer]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 2:34am

i talk like that. someone who has made movies and knows how hard they are to make.

And the level of craft that went into Chicago is not a fluke. there is talent there.

And if you know enough about film to have an informed opinion about Fellini or whether or not Marshall understood Fredrico's material as much as you do, then you would see that in fact that one film took enough skill to show a talent for filmmaking. Give the guy a break. Every great filmmaker makes crappy films. Is Woody Allen a hack because of The Curse of The Jade Scorpion? Is The Godfather a fluke because Coppola made Jack?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 2:46am

People are getting way overdefensive. YOU are getting way overdefensive.

I'm not saying he should be shot. He just made a bad movie. Chill.

Why someone with "snarky" in their name is such a wounded bird is beyond me.

Are YOU Rob Marshall?

[snarkywannabedreamer]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 3:02am

I am actually not being defensive... I am however defending a guy who is just out there doing his thing. There is a difference. I personally don't care what you think of me or my thoughts and honestly have no emotion really about you or your posts. Not a wounded bird. Just think these boards get littered with people who dog others and what they are trying to do when in reality those posters are probably just bitter because they can't do it themselves. And regarding my name... if you are perceptive enough to dissect the work of Fellini you should be able to see that my name is a joke, a comment on the lamest posters in the BWW message board land. I'm chill. Are you?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 3:04am

Nothing about your last posts reads "chill," but have a good night!

[snarkywannabedreamer]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 3:21am

hahaha... okay.

[A Director]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 3:27am

snarky - I watched 8 1/2 again a week before I saw NINE. In NINE, onstage, there is no scene in the screening room. In NINE, the movie, the scene in the screening room is taken from 8 1/2. in NINE, the movie, there is a scene where Guido is examined by a doctor, again that is taken from 8 1/2. The scenes with Guido and Claudia driving in his sports car and them in front of a fountain are taken from La Dolce Vita. While watching NINE, I kept thinking those scenes were better in the Fellini films.

What is missing from NINE,the movie, is the wit and humor found in 8 1/2.

When Fellini gave his permission for NINE, he requested that his name did not appear in the program or promotional material.

Perhaps it is unfair to blame Rob Marshall for all the flaws in the movie. The screenwriters and Maury Yeston are also at fault.

I, for one, didn't think much of Chicago the movie.

[Daniel2]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 11:30am

Nine, while not an especially good film is certainly not "****ty". Unless, of course, you're a bitter showqueen or high school student who spends all day typing on the message boards of "Broadwayworld"--known as the meanest Broadway site on the internet.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 11:36am

I thought All That Chat was worse? I don't usually go there though.

I also didn't think Chicago was that great. I think the problem is that Marshall tried to replicate Chicago with a show that did not lend itself easily to that formula.

The point about movie critics having seen 8 1/2 is also a good one.

[ChiChi]

Posted: 1/20/10 at 11:40am

arrogance.