Shows that don't age well- Page 2

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 3:43pm

^^^^

Yeah, I don't see why Hello, Dolly! would be dated, unless those who mount it are just bored and doing it only because it's a title that sells tickets. (Operas such as Carmen and Butterfly sometimes suffer the same fate.)

Dolly was written decades after the period in which it is set, so why is it any more dated a few decades later? And surely the story of a strong woman working hard to make her living isn't a plot we find obsolete.

[ReggieonBway]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 3:53pm

Oklahoma is the first thing that comes to mind. The humor isn't particularly funny anymore, and the drama isn't particularly touching. It may have been at one point in history, but at this point, to a younger theater-goer - it just isn't.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 4:17pm

It was the ideology of pregnancy in the various stages of life that is now so passe. The abortion issue may be the only part that could still hold relevance in today's political climate, but it's really sort of glossed over. The show really ends up to succumbing to cliched conservative attitudes towards parenting, marriage, abortion and conception. Gender roles are explored, but kept in check. And true love is the answer. I know so many people who would want to strangle someone if they ever saw this show.

Updated On: 8/18/11 at 04:17 PM

[dstalksalot]

Posted: 8/18/11 at 11:13pm

I like this thread.

I have to second "Best Little Whorehouse..." I was in that show in college about 15 years ago and we had fun running the show, and the music is a romp, but it runs thin on substance. Many of the characters disappear after the first act and I don't know, it just feels dated.

I was late to the party and finally just recently saw Rent for the first time. I am not sure if it resonates as well as it did when it first launched. Maybe people are less likely to take HIV as a death sentence and are more hopeful???? I think people will come back to the show as more of a period piece as years pass. The music is gorgeous.

What about the other R and H shows? Carousel? Are those themes more universal?

Cats? Dated!

I think Les Mis will endure. It is written from a classic and the music is operatic enough to transcend time.

[gypsy4]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:28am

BYE BYE BIRDIE! there's some elements in the shows book that are a little dated.

[pinoyidol2006]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:31am

I love the music in Carousel, but some things in it make me cringe (i.e. slap can feel like a kiss). And yet, I still love it so much.

I think when done well, I wouldn't consider it dated.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 8:03am

Thanks, Mister Matt. I think I understand now. No major network TV character has had an abortion since Maude, so it sounds like the show played it just as safe as ABC, NBC or CBS.

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 11:46am

The political humor in Li'l Abner still works. "The Country's in the Very Best of Hands," "Progress Is the Root of All Evil" and "Oh, Happy Days" remain hilarious. And I disagree about "Baby." A young couple on the fence about whether or not they're ready to start a family...a couple in their 30s who do want to start a family but are having trouble conceiving...and an older couple who have already raised their kids confronting the possibility of starting over with a new one... None of this feels dated to me although I'd keep it set in the 80s. And the score is great fun.

There's a difference between a period piece and a piece that just feels dated. "Company" is a period piece, entrenched in the 70s (just listen to that Moog synthesizer at the beginning of the show). Likewise "Hair," which could only take place in the era in which it was written. And anyone who's seen the Arena Stage production of "Oklahoma!" knows that it has lost none of its power to dazzle.

[bobbybaby85]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:09pm

Updated On: 2/20/18 at 12:09 PM

[Wilmingtom]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 12:18pm

I think those revivals were ill-advised to take the story out of the 70s because, as we agree, you can't take the 70s out of "Company." And there were no rewrites that don't make sense set in the 70s.

[GlindatheGood22]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 2:52pm

I can't believe people said Company. It is essentially a thematic show, and the themes are universal - isolation, marriage, the need to feel loved. I agree that it works best in the social context on the 70s, but the concepts presented in the show are strong enough and relevant enough to carry the show into the modern age.

This post has made me wonder about Sweeney Todd. I doubt anyone would ever call it dated, most likely because the themes are universal and it does not take place in the era in which it was written. How open to interpretation is the show? I know the original production focused heavily on the domination of the working class by industry, but that theme can easily be removed since it was rooted in the direction, not the book or lyrics. The show is mean to take place during the Industrial Revolution. I wonder if it's versatile enough to bring it out of that age.

[dstalksalot]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 4:19pm

For the answer to your Sweeny Todd question I suppose you could look at the recent film version with Johnny Depp. Did that work for you? I am a huge Sondheim lover, and I really loved the look of the film production, and the actors for me worked fine (for the film version) but I don't know, just did not LOVE it although I loved the macob Tim Burton vibe...(how do you spell that word? My spell check is having a field day.) Again, huge Sondheim fan, but just don't love that show for some reason.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 4:45pm

I don't think it's possible to remove Sweeney Todd from the era in which it's set, unless you abstract the piece (as Doyle did, but even then it was clearly set in Victorian England).

[PattiLover]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 5:11pm

The people saying Best Little Whorehouse is dated are painfully unaware of the current political situation. There will ALWAYS be rightwing lunatics with bloated egos who will try to attack and censor. Melvin P. Thorpe is a great stand-in for Glenn Beck or Pat Robertson. I saw a decent production a few years ago and it was uncomfortable noticing how a show written 30 years ago still is struggling with the same issues today. There will always be religious lunatics who try to suppress sexual freedom.

How to Suceed in Business Without Really Trying is a great example of a show that hasn't aged well. Actually, it's more of a museum piece. It has to always be set in the early 60's to make sense.

[charlesjguiteau]

Posted: 8/19/11 at 5:13pm

Gee, I STRONGLY disagree with those who say Hello Dolly doesn't work onstage today. Believe me, I'm not a big Jerry Herman booster but I think the combination of book, score, choreography, and basic sense of showbiz in this piece makes for a little slice of musical comedy heaven. The fact that it's looking back with gleefully rose-colored glasses at the 1890's helps save it from appearing like a dated 60's artifact. (I'm looking at you, How to Succeed...)

My votes for most dated classics:
On Your Toes
On the Town, and
Finian's Rainbow

3 shows from the Golden Age that have brilliant scores but oh my god, those comedy scenes make me cringe today. Seeing each show in a Broadway revival in the last 2 decades was among the saddest nights I've spent in a theater, wanting to love these shows all over again and finding they just don't work anywhere but in a concert hall (or Ballet Stage) nowadays.

By contrast, I was thrilled that the Pal Joey revival showed how much moxie there was in the old girl still. And Brigadoon is another classic from the 40's that I bet a smart director/choreographer could breathe new life into.

Posted: 8/19/11 at 5:42pm

Rent feels old now --- chorus line did in the 80s -- so maybe it just needs to age another decade.

Nanette and Boyfriend are period pieces -- take them for what they are -- great music, silly plots.

Aspects of South Pacific are really dated -- but as we all saw at Lincoln Center -- a top-notch production can smooth over those things.

The Magic Show (which I saw in '75) -- was a vehicle for DH...not really something someone else can do....unless there is a hippie/yoga magician out there.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 4:12am

Sorry if this is OT but "Sweeney" is one of my top 5 favorite shows and the film was a huge disappointment. I don't like removing the chorus (leave the singers offstage if you must), but I can live with that. And I was surprised to find Johnny Depp an effective Todd.

But Helena Bonham Carter! Ugh! I normally love her, but she was ridiculously miscast--I don't care who she sleeps with or that Sondheim made a deal with the devil and approved her. Mrs. Lovett, whose hyperactive capitalism crosses the line into an insanity more profound and shocking than that of Sweeney, is what makes the show something more than a mere revenge melodrama.

Carter appeared to be playing the same character as Depp, except she had a somewhat larger dose of xanax. So the film is less than the the "Teeny Todd." It's the Half Todd.

Bitter disappointment after seeing the original and numerous other productions many, many times. And just in case anyone is wondering if I'm stuck on the original: yes, I enjoyed both Beth Fowler and Christine Baranski as Mrs Lovett.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 4:17am

Wilminton, I agree the score of Li'l Abner remains relevant and even witty. But General Motors is no longer the dominant force in the American economy and it's been several generations since the U.S. tested an A-bomb. I doubt you'd find many people with the same faith in progress and Science that the characters of Dogpatch exhibit. These are all lynchpins of the badly dated plot.

Witness the fact that when I was a kid, every high school in the country did the show every 5 to 10 years. I haven't heard of a production near me in decades.

[bossbear062]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 9:09am

IMO:

1776: Unless it gets a revamp of new songs. I don't think and audience can sit through that show today.

A chorus line: It's hard to put my finger on why it feels dated..but it does.

Spamalot: Less and Less people appreciate the comedy of that nature

And I know it's to early to call but do you think these new hit contemporary musicals will hold up 20 plus years from now i.e. Spring Awaking, and In the Heights? I actually think Next to Normal will hold up well 20 years from now..but that's just me

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 6:37pm

Pattilover is absolutely correct, of course, that right-wing demagogues are still with us.

But "Best Little Whorehouse" makes them seem cute and funny. I think we know better nowadays.

[Mildred Plotka]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 6:49pm

"Upper middle class white people don't have those issues anymore. It's forever a slice of 70s city life."

I think this statement is a little naive. It seems to assume that the key demographic for Company is middle class white people. I think the relationship issues and personal struggles that Furth and Sondheim touch on in Company are universal and timeless. It was never about a snapshot of '70's life. If they'd written it in any other decade, it would have taken place then. It wouldn't be revived so often and have so many fans if it was merely a look at the '70's and the people in it. True, the era is somewhat essential (though Doyle pulled it out, without much trouble), but the pain, heartache, and issues within will always be things we struggle with. Without sounding toO pretentious. It's simply about the human condition.

Updated On: 8/20/11 at 06:49 PM

[winston89]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 7:37pm

^^^^^^^

You are right that company is, in short, about the human condition. However, there's a point that I feel needs mentioning. Company explores all the issues of relationships that were previously mentioned in this thread. However, the catalyst for them is something that is dated. Gone are the days when it is odd to not be married by your mid thirties. I feel that Company was expressing all issues and angles of relationships within the backdrop of Bobby feeling pressured to get married. Sure, the topics that the shows touches on are there and very relevant. However, nowadays for the most part, if you're in your mid thirties and not married it isn't as socially out of place as it would have been back in the 70's.

[Gaveston2]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 8:02pm

I agree that Company deals with universals and I agree that it does so by means of period-specific detail. It's a rather basic rule of playwriting that one can't dramatize universal issues by writing blandly. God is always in the details.

I prefer to see the play set in its original time.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 8:50pm

Most of the plot details of Shakespeare's plays are uniquely Elizabethan, and yet those plays are not only commonly revived but moved all over history, sometimes very successfully, and they still resonate.

Company's themes are powerful enough to overpower the fact it features dated references and expectations. It doesn't hold them as a crutch to hold up the piece.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 8/20/11 at 8:53pm

"Wasn't there a production [of The Wiz] out in CA a few years ago that was eyeing Bway? Anyone see that one?"

I believe you're thinking of the La Jolla production.