Jeff Loeffelholz suicide news coverage- Page 5

[NoName3]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 5:10pm

One of the earlier blog posts stated that although the full cast didn't assemble until after Jeff's special rehearsal, there were other cast and crew members present during Jeff's rehearsal and asked that they come forward with whatever they saw or heard.

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 05:10 PM

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 5:22pm

Some of he people here just guessing about Jeff’s mental state make me sick. You didn’t know him. You have NOTHING to gain or lose from simply either offering your condolences or just not saying anything at all. He deserves better than that bullsh*t from strangers. And yes, as I’ve said before I DID know him.

[Broadway Joe]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 5:32pm

A Director said: "SeanD2 said: "If you can’t handle criticism at your job you shouldn’t have your job. If he placed so much of his sense of self in his work then that’s on him and not his employers.

Besides, from the available information he was given multiple opportunities to grow in his work (both with Chicago and The Visit) and he chose to focus on the monetary value of a contract that bet career progression.
"

Let me take a wild guess, SeanD2; you must be a Republican.

"

I'm not a Republican but I think criticism to a certain degree is perfectly acceptable at a job especially one where performance matters and I think having a contract that let's you stick around for basically as long as you want is ridiculously absurd. If he didn't have that contract he would have been more motivated to take on new opportunities that he clearly declined because of this contract. 

[The Distinctive Baritone]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 5:52pm

Jordan, I’m sorry you lost your friend/colleague. But bull**** from strangers is what this message board is.

The discussion was initially shut down by moderators, but now, fortunately or unfortunately, it’s national news. However, I think most of us feel genuinely sorry for him and want to know what happened and what can be done about it - both in terms of the individuals who contributed to his suicide, and how future incidents like this can be prevented.

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 5:53pm

NoName3 said: "One of the earlier blog posts stated that although the full cast didn't assemble until after Jeff's special rehearsal, there were other cast and crew members present during Jeff's rehearsal and asked that they come forward with whatever they saw or heard."

And yet no one has.  Nice of Robert Du Sold to make it all about him.  He's implying whichever actress he spoke to was there - was she?  Why hasn't she gone on the record?  I don't trust anything Du Sold says, frankly.  He was devastated because a stage manager criticized his performance?  Perhaps she was right, perhaps he sucked, perhaps from lack of rehearsal, perhaps not.   

From everything I have read this is the one and only rehearsal where this happened.  Had it happened before would Jeff not have kept notes about those interactions, too?  So far we have heard virtually nothing from Bobbie, the producers (other than they are investigating), or the MD or anyone else who may have been in the room.  Because thus far all the info contained in every article has come from the blog posts.  We should all want to hear all sides of this, but we haven't.  I hate the production, have never understood its longevity - I don't know the Weisslers, I do know Bobbie peripherally, having worked with him once a very long time ago and long before Chicago, don't know the MD at all.  I do know that you get nothing from a performer by belittling or screaming - some directors feel that that kind of drama is necessary - Arthur Penn famously said if there wasn't that kind of tension and acrimony in a rehearsal room the result would be bland.  I disagree completely.  This is a very sad situation and I'm sure everyone here would like the answers we simply do not have at this point - as in a court of law, we don't just get one side of a story.  If the investigation brings out stuff, if people come forward, then we'll know what's what.  

Finally, if the blog is written by his partner, why is the partner's name there - or did I miss that, too?

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 05:53 PM

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 5:53pm

Broadway Joe said: "A Director said: "SeanD2 said: "If you can’t handle criticism at your job you shouldn’t have your job. If he placed so much of his sense of self in his work then that’s on him and not his employers.

Besides, from the available information he was given multiple opportunities to grow in his work (both with Chicago and The Visit) and he chose to focus on the monetary value of a contract that bet career progression.
"

Let me take a wild guess, SeanD2; you must be a Republican.

"

I'm not a Republican but I think criticism to a certain degree is perfectly acceptable at a job especially one where performance matters and I think having a contract that let's you stick around for basically as long as you want is ridiculously absurd. If he didn't have that contract he would have been more motivated to take on new opportunities that he clearly declined because of this contract."

Whether the contract was ridiculous or not, it was still a contract signed by both parties. If it was a mistake on either Jeff's or the production's part to sign it in the first place, then yeah, it was a mistake. But it was still a contract and everyone involved were bound to the terms.

And as far as taking criticism, I think a fair amount of criticism is fine and acceptable and to be expected. What was unusual and brings up big red flags for me is that Walter Bobbie was called in just to oversee Jeff's rehearsal. He hadn't performed the role live on stage since February. It'd be like having to write an expense report for someone else in your office who was out sick, and then four months later being surprised by someone in upper management, who doesn't even work in your building, who you haven't even seen for months, come in and ridicule you about writing expense reports in the lobby as your coworkers were showing up to work.

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 05:53 PM

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 6:03pm

bk said: "Finally, if the blog is written by his partner, why is the partner's name there - or did I miss that, too?"

The blog was not written by his partner. It was written by a friend.

And if Bobbie and Stifelman are being investigated, they would have been advised not to talk to any media. It's also possible that other witnesses are keeping quiet until the investigation is complete.

Also, it has been barely over a week.

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 06:03 PM

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 6:06pm

And others may be keeping quiet because they fear for their jobs as well.

 

Also, way off topic, I apologize for my many typos. I am posting exclusively from a mobile phone. It's terribly frustrating.

Updated On: 7/8/18 at 06:06 PM

[ACL2006]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 6:26pm

I agree that all current cast & crew have probably been told to keep quiet right now. Can't be an easy time for anyone involved in the show currently.

[dearalanaaaa]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 6:56pm

Do you think this could spur a boycott into the show? Or an investigation? I've been reading this and more and more and it sounds very suspect a lot of these things. What about consequences for the show? This is one of the most interesting (despite sad) threads I have read in awhile on here

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 6:58pm

It occurs to me that if Equity membership is limited to actors and stage managers, their own investigation could be biased as well, in favor of Jeff. If Judd Burstein's investigation is biased toward the production and Equity's investigation (if there is one - there should be, at least) is biased toward Jeff, then how will there ever be a fair investigation? The police would never investigate because there really isn't anything Bobbie or Stifelman could be charged with. Who could conduct a truly fair and unbiased investigation?

[thedrybandit]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 7:18pm

SeanD2 said: "This is why unions need to lose their power. Actors are employees and should be able to be fired at will by their employers. Had Bobbie been able to fire this standby the “bullying” instance would never have taken place."

No.

First of all, you don't know that it would have prevented this bullying. Second, the way this is worded makes it sound like because he was protected by a union, he deserved to be bullied instead of the production buying out his contract, which per union rules, is perfectly acceptable. As has been said multiple times, they could have fired him, it just would have cost them money to do so. For a show running two decades, it wouldn't have been a huge amount of money for the production.

Unions need to be this strong to prevent this kind of thing, and act accordingly when it happens. This is why they exist. The people allegedly doing the bullying could have simply bought him out, instead of handling it the way they did. They chose to try to avoid paying him by bullying him to quit. That's where the problem is, not with the union.

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 7:19pm

MosaicOwl said: "bk said: "Finally, if the blog is written by his partner, why is the partner's name there - or did I miss that, too?"

The blog was not written by his partner. It was written by a friend.

And if Bobbie and Stifelman are being investigated, they would have been advised not to talk to any media. It's also possible that other witnesses are keeping quiet until the investigation is complete.

Also, it hasbeen barely over a week."

Okay, why doesn't the friend sign it - anonymity is not a good idea with something like this.  Also, there are just too many suppositions here - could be, might be, maybe - we're all just going to have to wait and see how this plays out, which is what I've said from the beginning.  Also, as long as you were responding to every point in my post BUT this one, I'm curious as to what you think: "From everything I have read this is the one and only rehearsal where this happened.  Had it happened before would Jeff not have kept notes about those interactions, too?"

 

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 7:23pm

From the latest blog entry: "A subsequent text exchange that following Tuesday June 26, Loeffelholz said to Rardin: “I would go hang out at the [Ambassador] Theater but I feel I have a scarlet letter on me.” By using the phrase “scarlet letter,” Loeffelholz was insinuating that he felt he had become a “marked” performer like the character Hester Prynne in the Nathaniel Hawthorne novel The Scarlet Letter. He was clearly afraid of being shunned by the other cast members who witnessed the previous Friday’s rehearsal. He then texted Rardin screen grabs of the Actor’s Equity rules regarding intimidation. He then sent Rardin a screen grab of the Equity rules regarding “Just Cause” and added “It was a set up.”

Looks to me like at least Jeff thought they were trying to push him to quit.

https://Justiceforjeffrey.wordpress.com

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 7:33pm

MosaicOwl said: "From the latest blog entry: "A subsequent text exchange that following Tuesday June 26, Loeffelholz said to Rardin: “I would go hang out at the [Ambassador] Theater but I feel I have a scarlet letter on me.” By using the phrase “scarlet letter,” Loeffelholz was insinuating that he felt he had become a “marked” performer like the character Hester Prynne in the Nathaniel Hawthorne novelThe Scarlet Letter. He was clearly afraid of being shunned by the other cast members who witnessed the previous Friday’s rehearsal. He then texted Rardin screen grabs of the Actor’s Equity rules regarding intimidation. He then sent Rardin a screen grab of the Equity rules regarding “Just Cause” and added “It was a set up.”

Looks to me like at least Jeff thought they were trying to push him to quit.

https://Justiceforjeffrey.wordpress.com"

This is what I am objecting to - it's all conjecture at this point, but it's being presented as it was fact.  The scarlet letter comment is being interpreted by the friend - we have no idea what was actually meant.  And once again, the friend is basically saying there were other performers in the rehearsal, when it's also been said that the rehearsal was just Loeffelholz, Bobbie, and the MD (and perhaps the stage manager) - and everything beyond that is this friend supposing all manner of things (anyone who was in the room please come forward - well, no one has come forward so perhaps no one was in the room but those mentioned above).  "He was clearly afraid of being shunned by the other cast members who witnessed the previous Friday's rehearsal" - either they were there and witnessed it or they weren't and didn't.  You do understand that any of them, had they witnessed it, could come forward anonymously, just like the friend, and say, yes, they were there and this is how it went down.  But they haven't, at least not yet.   You said a while back you don't know what happened and you're just looking for truth - we have to trust the truth will come out, but now you're already planting doubts here that there can never be a fair investigation from any side.

 

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 7:33pm

bk said: "MosaicOwl said: "bk said: "Finally, if the blog is written by his partner, why is the partner's name there - or did I miss that, too?"

The blog was not written by his partner. It was written by a friend.

And if Bobbie and Stifelman are being investigated, they would have been advised not to talk to any media. It's also possible that other witnesses are keeping quiet until the investigation is complete.

Also, it hasbeen barely over a week."

Okay, why doesn't the friend sign it - anonymity is not a good idea with something like this. Also, there are just too many suppositions here - could be, might be, maybe - we're all just going to have to wait and see how this plays out, which is what I've said from the beginning. Also, as long as you were responding to every point in my post BUT this one, I'm curious as to what you think: "From everything I have read this is the one and only rehearsal where this happened. Had it happened before would Jeff not have kept notes about those interactions, too?"

Bk, 

Anonymity is probably being maintained to protect the author from public scrutiny until the investigation can be completed. The last thing the author wants is attention diverted from the original situation onto him because of anyone who doesn't believe him. If an official investigation contacts him, I have no doubt that he will disclose his identity with that investigation. I know who the author is. I won't say on here, for those same reasons.

As far as Jeff keeping notes on previous rehearsals, I don't know. Surely he would, if it had happened. If he did, his partner and friends may have not found or gone through them yet.

 

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 7:54pm

Bk,

If I were trying to plant ideas, I would insist that the Equity investigation is fair while the Burstein investigation is not.

The rehearsal began with only Jeff, Bobbie, and Stifelman. Cast members began to arrive slowly as the rehearsal continued. I believe it says that in the handwritten notes. It also says in the blog (which, by the way, I have always referred to as "the blog" and never said that it was independently verified) that by the time the rehearsal was over there were at least a dozen people present.

And yeah, no one's come forward yet. It's been a week. And also don't tell me why I'm here. I AM here for truth. Don't tell me or anyone else otherwise. My family member killed himself and I know virtually nothing about it. Nobody in my family does. We now have ZERO blood relatives in NYC, because Jeff was the only one of us that lived there. We love his partner, Peter, more than words can say. He is family to us too, but he is our only contact in New York, and nobody wants to continuously probe him for information while he is grieving so greatly. [edited to clarify meaning for first-time readers, any quoted material has remained unedited].

Updated On: 7/11/18 at 07:54 PM

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 8:45pm

MosaicOwl said: "Bk,

If I were trying to plant ideas, I would insist that the Equity investigation is fair while the Burstein investigation is not.

The rehearsal began with only Jeff, Bobbie, and Stifelman. Cast members began to arrive slowly as the rehearsal continued. I believe it says that in the handwritten notes. It also says in the blog (which, by the way, I have always referred to as "the blog" and never said that it was independently verified) that by the time the rehearsal was over there were at least a dozen people present.

And yeah, no one's come forward yet. It's been a week. And also don't tell me why I'm here. I AM here for truth. Don't tell me or anyone else otherwise. My family member killed himself and I know virtually nothing about it. Nobody in my family does. We now have ZERO blood relatives in NYC, because Jeff was the only one of us that lived there."

I'm not telling you or anyone else anything.  I'm offering my take on things - skip it if it's bothering you.  Everyone is offering all kinds of things in this thread.  But keeping it even-keeled and factual I would think would be the most important thing.

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 9:01pm

Bk said: "...but now you're already planting doubts here that there can never be a fair investigation from any side."

How is that statement "not telling me or anyone else anything"?

 

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 9:28pm

bk said: "MosaicOwl said: "Bk,

If I were trying to plant ideas, I would insist that the Equity investigation is fair while the Burstein investigation is not.

The rehearsal began with only Jeff, Bobbie, and Stifelman. Cast members began to arrive slowly as the rehearsal continued. I believe it says that in the handwritten notes. It also says in the blog (which, by the way, I have always referred to as "the blog" and never said that it was independently verified) that by the time the rehearsal was over there were at least a dozen people present.

And yeah, no one's come forward yet. It's been a week. And also don't tell me why I'm here. I AM here for truth. Don't tell me or anyone else otherwise. My family member killed himself and I know virtually nothing about it. Nobody in my family does. We now have ZERO blood relatives in NYC, because Jeff was the only one of us that lived there."

I'm not telling you or anyone else anything. I'm offering my take on things - skip it if it's bothering you. Everyone is offering all kinds of things in this thread. But keeping it even-keeled and factual I would think would be the most important thing."

You are not worth my time or energy right now, sir. I have recieved enough PMs with quoted examples involving you to draw my own conclusions about your true intentions in this thread. I'll let our respective reputations in the message board speak for themselves. 

[ArtMan]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 10:14pm

MosaicOwl, First, I am sorry for your loss.  Second, I have been hesitant to post on this thread for various reasons.  I understand that the majority of your family is out of state.  I believe you mentioned Oklahoma.  What I don't understand is why you are not in direct  24-7 communication with Jeff's partner and possibly obtaining information from him, instead of from a bunch of strangers on a message board who really know nothing? Even though he is not a member of family by blood, he is, your late cousin's partner for many years. He would be the one to offer answers to the family, on your cousin's state of mind. well being, and overall health.  Not a bunch of Broadway World posters, who in reality, actually know nothing. 

Updated On: 7/9/18 at 10:14 PM

[John Adams]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 10:40pm

ArtMan said: "MosaicOwl, First, I am sorry for your loss. Second, I have been hesitant to post on this thread for various reasons. I understand that the majority of your family is out of state. I believe you mentioned Oklahoma. What I don't understand is why you are not in direct 24-7 communication with Jeff's partner and possibly obtaining information from him, instead of from a bunch of strangers on a message board who really know nothing?Even though he is not a member of family by blood, he is, your late cousin's partner for many years. He would be the one to offer answers to the family, on your cousin's state of mind. well being, and overall health. Not a bunch of Broadway World posters, who in reality, actuality know nothing."

Thanks, ArtMan for your post. I've been thinking the same thing and personally, I wish the Moderators would delete this thread, also. 

Among many uncomfortable posts from MosaicOwl, the last straw for me was the statement, "We now have ZERO blood relatives in NYC, because Jeff was the only one of us that lived there."

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 10:59pm

ArtMan said: "MosaicOwl, First, I am sorry for your loss. Second, I have been hesitant to post on this thread for various reasons. I understand that the majority of your family is out of state. I believe you mentioned Oklahoma. What I don't understand is why you are not in direct 24-7 communication with Jeff's partner and possibly obtaining information from him, instead of from a bunch of strangers on a message board who really know nothing?Even though he is not a member of family by blood, he is, your late cousin's partner for many years. He would be the one to offer answers to the family, on your cousin's state of mind. well being, and overall health. Not a bunch of Broadway World posters, who in reality, actuality know nothing."

That is a good question. I can totally understand why you must be thinking that. I am not here to get info directly about Jeff's death. I am mainly here on the message board to get info and perspective regarding Broadway politics, ongoings, and culture, so I can interpret what I learn about what happened. The information regarding the details of Jeff's suicide I have been gathering from his friends, other family members, from the news sometimes, and yes, from his partner (when I can). He has a great many people contacting him, and when I've actually heard back from him he says it's all very hard to deal with. I don't want to probe him for more info everytime I think of something when I know everyone is probing him for info that is still very hard for him to talk about. I'm also here to just get my thoughts out. I've already talked my husband to frustration about this at home, and while Jeff's and my family are all here in Oklahoma, it doesn't mean that I talk to them every single day. I originally visited the boards here to see what people were thinking and saying about what happened, and I really just started to enjoy having an outlet to vent about this (and respond to people who don't agree sometimes). My family is pretty much all in agreeance, opinion-wise, and so I think it's really healthy for me to hear other ideas and also maybe questions we hadn't thought of, so that I can expand my thoughts and gain more perspective (perspective, not raw info about the situation). I know there are people here in Oklahoma that I've talked to who probably don't want to say what they are really thinking because they don't want to sound insensitive, so I kind of find it a more realistic picture of the world here, when my social life in Oklahoma for the past week has probably been a little too surreal. My husband and I met after the last time I saw Jeff and Peter, and so he never met Jeff and really really doesn't understand, and I know he's probably really tired of listening to me talk about it. He's not insensitive, he's just a really busy guy with our work (we own a restaurant), and so he doesn't get a lot of time to just relax and sit in silence. Anyway, I hope that answers your question.

[bk]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 11:12pm

MosaicOwl said: "Bk said: "...but now you're already planting doubts here that there can never be a fair investigation from any side."

How is that statement "not telling me or anyone else anything"?

"

It is exactly what I said - offering my take on things.  The End.  As to this "I got lots of PMs telling me about you"  uh huh - quoted examples and all, right out of context, too, I'm sure, and I'm sure I could name the exact people who sent them - and let me tell you how much I care about what they sent you.  I'll just watch this from the sidelines when all the facts come out from all sides.

[MosaicOwl]

Posted: 7/8/18 at 11:13pm

"Among many uncomfortable posts from MosaicOwl, the last straw for me was the statement, "We now have ZERO blood relatives in NYC, because Jeff was the only one of us that lived there.""

The last thing I wanted was to make anyone uncomfortable. The only thing I meant by that statement was that my family doesn't really know any of Jeff's friends since he grew up here and made friends after moving to NY, and so the only person we know who knows what's going on up there is Peter, and he isn't ready to really talk about it. That's all I meant, that we have nobody to fill us in on everything as it's happening. I've reached out to some of their friends, including the friend writing the blog, but they are all so incredibly busy filling in so many people. Here I am, a lowly cousin. I just want to know more about what happened and have a place to gain perspective from people who are either in the industry, or know more about it than I do.