Dear Evan Hansen Previews- Page 6

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 11:53am

I think that this falls into the same category as the original Spring Awakening (the musical).  While imperfect, it hits some audience members very emotionally.  That goes a long way.   

I was always aware of the flaws with SA, and am also aware of them in this show....loved them both anyway.   As a teacher, I see kids struggle with all the things we are shown here, and my own son certainly has a less then involved dad. 

Will this garner the attention and awards of SA?  Doubtful, there are better shows this year.  

 

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 11:53am

I think that this falls into the same category as the original Spring Awakening (the musical).  While imperfect, it hits some audience members very emotionally.  That goes a long way.   

I was always aware of the flaws with SA, and am also aware of them in this show....loved them both anyway.   As a teacher, I see kids struggle with all the things we are shown here, and my own son certainly has a less then involved dad. 

Will this garner the attention and awards of SA?  Doubtful, there are better shows this year.  

 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 11:56am

"Doubtful, there are better shows this year.  "

 

I've seen many of this season's musicals already in prior incarnations, and I don't agree with that statement. But we all have opinions!

I understand the confusion/concern about wanting to pinpoint Evan's problems, but I found the vagueness of it to make it more universal.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 11:59am

Are you saying you DO think DEH is the best new show?

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:01pm

I think its way too early to say which show this year is going to be best or better than (and they are all so different anyway). I know many have had pre-New York productions, but I'm sure all the productions will be making changes of varying degree before hitting Broadway.

[macnyc]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:01pm

It didn't bother me either that we don't know exactly what Evan's problem is. He goes into the situation so gradually, it's kind of easy to see how it happens, and it's hard to blame him for what he does. I felt a lot of empathy for him. That was my reaction anyway.

Updated On: 11/18/16 at 12:01 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:06pm

I'm guessing the reasons behind it are similar to what the team behind Curious Incident said: they don't want to label it because they didn't want to restrict who identified with Christopher/Evan. But still, I think part of it may be so they can get away with not doing research into actual disorders and how to portray them.

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:09pm

I know very little about Dear Evan Hansen, but I have several friends with adolescent kids who have issues similar to those attributed to the leading character here.  One has mild autism, one has depression / and something they say is akin to Aspergers-like symptoms.  But in general, these conditions aren't always conclusively diagnosed and the behaviors do share similarities in common, so I think its probably best they don't give his issues an official diagnosis.

[KJisgroovy]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:09pm

"Has Platt or the creative team ever explicitly stated what condition Evan suffers from?"

I'm not sure why he has to have a "condition." Anxiety manifests itself in all sorts of ways. As does autism. As does depression. I don't think you always need to reduce things to a diagnosis. 

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:18pm

"I understand the confusion/concern about wanting to pinpoint Evan's problems, but I found the vagueness of it to make it more universal."

This is fair! I think though, when you're writing about mental illness (and to be clear, I'm always happy to see more shows tackle it because there's still a lot of shame and stigma around it), you run the risk of over-generalizing and end up with a sort of flattening out portrayal- correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there were similar criticisms made of Next to Normal. Ultimately, that's my issue with the show, but it's clearly resonating with a lot of people and that's a good thing. 

[HSky]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:24pm

I will respectfully disagree about social anxiety, wonderfulwizard11. I don't want to delve too much into the personal, but I went through some anxiety issues in high school and (perhaps this is why the show really resonates with me) it resolved itself in a way that isn't too far off from what happens to Evan.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:34pm

I know this can be a sensitive topic and I never meant to offend by using the word "condition." 

I think why this issue plays such a big role in Dear Evan Hansen is that Evan eventually commits real crimes here and since I'm struggling to have any empathy towards him and his actions I'm wondering if there are mitigating medical/neurological conditions at play here.

Mac- I agree that at first Evan is brought into the situation unwillingly and even attempts to tell Connor's parents the truth. It's a shocking moment for him that he understandably gets caught up in. But then he willing chooses to go to dinner at their house and consciously lies to them. I began losing empathy for him here, but where it all went out the window for me was when things surrounding Connor began to die down and Evan had an easy out to end the situation, and yet he doubled down by starting the Connor Project.

I had a lot of empathy for all three parents and Zoe, but by the end I had completely turned on Evan.  

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:44pm

HSky said: "I will respectfully disagree about social anxiety, wonderfulwizard11. I don't want to delve too much into the personal, but I went through some anxiety issues in high school and (perhaps this is why the show really resonates with me) it resolved itself in a way that isn't too far off from what happens to Evan."

Totally fair! Like I said, it's a pitfall of writing about mental illness- it hits everyone differently.

Whizzer, I completely agree with you re: the empathy issue. 

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 12:49pm

If it must be given a medical diagnosis, it honestly sounds most like Aspergers which does often play out in criminal behavior.

[clb10162]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 1:38pm

Wait, now we've gone from mental illness to criminal behavior?  I'm probably way older than everyone on this board but I clearly remember the pain and difficulty of being an outsider in high school.  There's no way of knowing whether certain "conditions" were under-diagnosed then or are over-diagnosed now.  The only thing that seems obvious, even to those who love this show (and I absolutely do), is that the book has some weaknesses that haven't been corrected pre-Broadway and are unlikely to be corrected now, given the overwhelmingly positive reception it has had.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 2:19pm

I mean, I think Evan obviously commits a pretty serious crime...

 

SPOILERS in order to continue this discussion

 

He commits fraud in the amount of $50,000 by soliciting money with false stories, and then to juice the donations when the money slows up, fraudulent documents that he helped create are used to re-invigorate the cause. Worse yet, the bulk of this fraudulently raised $50,000 is going to fix up an orchard that plays a central role in the lies he continued to perpetuate. 

This is a serious crime with real legal ramifications. Anyone who contributed their $50 to the campaign should be able to sue and get their money back, IMO. 

If I see an obituary in the Times of someone who died from cancer and come on here claiming he or she was my best friend and attempt to raise $50,000 to build a public peace garden in their name, I am committing fraud, even if it is for a "good cause" -peace gardens are lovely- but it is still fraud. 

I wouldnt necessarily classify Asperger's or autism as a mental illness, but if I were a juror and I knew a defendant was somewhere on the spectrum would most likely affect my judgement/empathy towards the situation. A mental impairment, for lack of a better word, can physically impact your judgement. Simply being shy and awkward does not. 

Updated On: 11/18/16 at 02:19 PM

[LimelightMike]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 2:37pm

Have yet to book a ticket to this one. What's the front row over at the Music Box for this production? Also, is the stage high?

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 2:39pm

I think it's going a bit too far to call that "fraud" and think that someone could actually sue. If he had lied and then used the money for something other than what he said it was for, like to take a vacation or something, then sure yes that would be fraud. But the money raised was used in exactly the way it was purported to be used.

(And he wasn't even the one who set up the charity and started raising money. That was the girl, I forget her name.)

[Cape Twirl of Doom]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 2:41pm

LimelightMike said: "Have yet to book a ticket to this one. What's the front row over at the Music Box for this production? Also, is the stage high?"

Front row is very high. I saw the dress rehearsal and sat in the second row, and even that was a bit too high. I'd recommend at least a few rows back.

[QueenAlice]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 2:42pm

I think diagnosis of a condition of Autism or Aspergers essentially clues that normal operational behavior may not be possible without some kind of medication.If a lawyer in a lawsuit could make that case on behalf of a client with those classifications, I think the jury would likely take it into consideration when ruling. 

But it is true again that autism and Asperbegers are often medical explanations for social disfunction rather than mental illness.  

Diana in next to normal seems to suffer from more overt symptoms of mental illness: bipolar and even schizophrenia.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 3:16pm

Cape Twirl of Doom said: "I think it's going a bit too far to call that "fraud" and think that someone could actually sue. If he had lied and then used the money for something other than what he said it was for, like to take a vacation or something, then sure yes that would be fraud. But the money raised was used in exactly the way it was purported to be used.
 


(And he wasn't even the one who set up the charity and started raising money. That was the girl, I forget her name.)

I still would call it fraud, even if every cent went exactly where they said it would. Again, if I claim to have cancer and even go so far as to fabricate medical documents that say I have cancer all in an effort to raise money for cancer research, it is still soliciting money under fraudulent circumstances. 

Up until this point Evan's "crimes" are strictly moral and ethical. Once the solicitation of money comes into play I viewed his trespass as a real, legal crime. 

I thought he came up with the foundation and the kickstarter campaign with Alana, but even if it was 100% her idea he had a legal obligation (as did Jared) to any potential donors to come clean about his lies and false documents used to fundraise. He not only didn't come clean, but rather he continued to make videos and write blogposts in an effort to misrepresent the truth with the sole intention of raising more money. 

This is why understanding Evan's exact mental state is so crucial. I have a cousin who has Down Syndrome. She knows the difference between right and wrong, but I don't know if she could always fully comprehend the domino effect a single, seemingly harmless lie could have. I would have extra empathy if she told they lie out of pressure to fit in and be accepted by peers. 

 

 

[neonlightsxo]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 3:32pm

dramamama611 said: "Are you saying you DO think DEH is the best new show?"

 

Yeah.

 

"I'm guessing the reasons behind it are similar to what the team behind Curious Incident said: they don't want to label it because they didn't want to restrict who identified with Christopher/Evan. "

That's how I interpreted the choice. Updated On: 11/18/16 at 03:32 PM

[macnyc]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 3:32pm

Whizzer, you make excellent points, as always. I guess I wasn't bothered as much by the ethical breaches. Maybe that says something about me, I don't know.

 

***********SPOILERS******************* But Connor did kill himself, and the orchard was going to be in memory of him. Those things were true. The money raised went to fix up the orchard. Yes, Evan did forge emails, but I thought that was more to prove to Connor's parents that he and Evan were friends. (I saw this at Second Stage, so my memory might be faulty.)

 

Updated On: 11/18/16 at 03:32 PM

[talinatter]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 3:37pm

I have seen this show five times now, and I do feel a sort of sympathy for Evan. I am in high school and I understand how Evan feels, and starting with waving through a window, I begin to root for him. He is a nice guy and always wants to apologize and do the right thing. The whole mess he gets himself into is due to the fact that he wants to help the murphys... he has no one to talk to and has trouble assessing emotions so he took the advice of the only person he did talk to, Jared, and lied. And then he couldn't stop until it became a huge thing. I found it hard to dislike Evan after waving, because I intified so strongly with that song. I was really upset by his actions yet I did feel that he truly didn't know how to handle the situation based off of his mental condition and his emotions. I don't think it matters what that exact condition is, and I don't think we should judge him off of it. Mental illnesses aren't clear cut, and his actions should be observed how they are presented in the production. I don't think Evan is necessarily supposed to be likeable or despised... it is up to you. Sort of like in dogfight how the male protagonist does bad things yet you still sort of like him and root for him. it is up to the viewer, regardless of the exact medical condition 

[macnyc]

Posted: 11/18/16 at 3:55pm

*************MILD SPOILERS***************

 

Also, to build on what talinatter is saying, Evan's family life, or what's left of it, is portrayed to be so sad, with his mother working such long hours and going to school too. Although she cares about him, she's clearly overwhelmed, and her relationship with Evan suffers. His father is totally out of the picture and has a new family, so Evan feels replaced. He's left to his own devices to order dinner, etc. and eat alone. His mother plans a taco night with him, but she forgets.

 

With all this going on, it's pretty understandable why he seizes the opportunity to essentially become part of the Murphy family. Although troubled in their own way, they are an intact family and are affluent. Being with them fulfills such a deep need in Evan. His motivation is clearly shown, and I guess that's why I was willing to give him a pass, even as lies get him in deeper and deeper. 

 

 

Updated On: 11/18/16 at 03:55 PM