Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
#1Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/7/10 at 2:41pm
Thought this was interesting. Give it the once over and tell me what you think.
http://koomandimond.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/how-i-failed-the-scottsboro-boys/
#2Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/7/10 at 2:54pm
I loved the show. But, while watching it, I couldn't help but think that none of the many casual theatre-goers I know (as opposed to the frequent attendees) would hate it. They people I know who go to the theatre maybe twice a year all hate to be depressed (they wouldn't necessarily have the self-knowledge to phrase it so simply, but that's the way they are).
And Scottsboro is easily the MOST ironic show I've ever seen in my life. The ugly story told through happy forms is amazing to see for a sophisticated viewer, but just too disturbing (I believe) for the masses.
Has there been a show this dark, tragic, and unhappy that's been a success? Sweeney is much more a cartoon than this (and Sweeney and Lovett return triumphant at the end anyway). Maria takes control at the end of West Side Story pointing towards the possibility of hope. (SPOILER: I don't think that the Rosa Parks ending is enough to allay the tone of tragedy that's gone before, as she hasn't been a character with whom we've engaged prior.)
So, wonderful though it is, I just couldn't see Scottsboro having any chance of appealing to the herds you need to make a buck on Broadway. But that doesn't make it a bad show, just another good show that lost money. It's good company to be in.
#2Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/7/10 at 3:12pmIt's an interesting article. Wonder what if it had originally been announced as a 4 month limited run might have happened? It would have given interested people who had wanted to see it the motivation to do it sooner rather than later.
Wayman_Wong
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#3Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/7/10 at 3:34pmThe writer says 'Scottsboro Boys' had a 'healthy run at the Vineyard.' But the big difference is that the Vineyard is an Off-Broadway house that seats only 120. It's a gigantic jump when you move to a Broadway theater with 922 seats. The economic reality is, unless you can sell thousands of tickets each week, and appeal to a broad-enough audience, you're not going to last very long on the Great White Way. Nor is it alone. 'Bloody Bloody Andrew Jackson,' which arguably got even better reviews, including Ben Brantley's Times blessing, is closing early, too.
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#4Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/7/10 at 8:59pm
Why does it have to be anybody's fault?
If it's not what the public wants, it's not. In troubled economic times, folks like to forget about their worries, not add a heap of other problems TO the list.
I'm grateful to have seen it...and sorry that it was only once. It was beautiful.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
Mr Roxy
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/17/03
#5Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/7/10 at 9:07pm
This is not the 60's with Cabaret
Prices have gone thru the roof & audiences have changed.People want to be entertained with no message. They are now more cautious as to how to spend their money seeing shows. Many do not go as often as they used to.They prefer Spidey over Scottsboro. This says it all.
No one should hang their head. It was a quality production that failed to catch on. It happens over & over . Another example is Sideshow.
Poster Emeritus
dramamama611
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/4/07
#6Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 5:31am
^That's not enitrely fair. N2N had a great run -- far surpassed what most thought was possible.
It's not always about prices gone through the roof. Why is EVERYTHING about $ for you, Mr. Roxy?
Let's be honest here. If the Scottsboro Boys with their small cast and simple sets decided to "only" sell their tix for $50 a piece...what would happen?
1. They likely couldn't match their expenses.
2. People would think: wow, it must not be very good if they have to practically GIVE tickets away.
Oh, sure, maybe repeat audience members might go more often, but what you really need is new audience tell two friends that tell two friends.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
steveshack
Leading Actor Joined: 8/21/04
#7Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 11:12am
As Fran Liebowitz says in the new HBO docu, Public Speaking, AIDS didn't just kill off the best creators in theater. It also killed off the best audience members.
There really is no audience out there for this kind of brilliant, edgy, genius kind of writing because the audience died.
Living in the Bonus Round
#8Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 11:47am
"There really is no audience out there for this kind of brilliant, edgy, genius kind of writing because the audience died."
I really don't agree with that statement. There's still an audience for this (just smaller in numbers). Unfortunately it seems that the demographics have changed (i.e., people now flock to jukebox musicals).
Updated On: 12/8/10 at 11:47 AM
After Eight
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/5/09
#9Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 11:57am
"Has there been a show this dark, tragic, and unhappy that's been a success?"
"Hamlet."
Just joking. But no doubt the depressing subject matter had something to do with the lack of ticket sales. Also the show deliberately sought to disturb audiences, which is always a tricky business, since being disturbed is not usually what an audience enjoys spending money on.
It might also be that audiences were divided on its merits. The show did not get unanimous raves, after all, so the show itself may have been found wanting.
I do think the linked column is overwrought in the extreme.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#10Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:12pm
It was a MUSICAL about a RAPE trial. Talk about a tough sell!
I am sick of people whining about how hard it is to sell a smart original musical on Broadway. It's hard to sell ANY musical- look at Xanadu: Shows don't come any more juke boxy or bubble gummy and it died like a dog.
Most shows flop. Thus it is, was and ever shall be.
WestwardHoHo
Chorus Member Joined: 8/2/10
#11Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:17pm
The book writer is to blame, for his inept dramaturgy.
The show has the dramatic tension of a soggy noodle.
aja
Swing Joined: 2/4/10
#12Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:31pmTicket prices, ticket prices, ticket prices. When a show asks you to lay down over $100 per ticket, one expects Wicked or some similar spectacle. A show like this has NO PLACE in the commercial theatre world of Broadway. This belongs in the non-profit sector of American theatre. As someone who pays attention to Broadway as well as reads frequently from periodicals like American Theatre Magazine, I can say that the rift between for profit and non-profit theatre in this country is growing wider and wider by the day. And the primary reason is funding and ticket prices. Risks can be taken when money being made is NOT the ultimate goal or necessity. Scottsboro Boys is a risky show. It's an entertaining, yet educational show. It does not suffer fools well. But when the Weislers (sp?) decided that it belonged on a Broadway stage, they were not thinking of what that meant. They were thinking of the prestige of being called a 'Broadway Musical.' And for that, their hearts were in the right place. But now, in order to be a 'Broadway Musical' you almost certainly must charge elite ticket prices, which a show like this has no business asking for.
#13Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:46pm
Personally. I had never heard of the Scottsboro boys until this show. I wonder if that could have been another strike against it. Unfamiliar subject matter.
Yes, the show had a healthy run at the Vineyard, and no, the point of creating art should not be to turn a profit. You can even make the argument that it was a mistake to try to transfer such a risky show. But I’m not buying it. This show deserves to be seen, and it deserves to be seen by as many people as possible. Broadway gives it the best chance to do that.
I disagree with this comment. Obviously, Broadway has not given it the best chance to be seen. There is no shame in producing a good Off-Broadway show. Maybe I'm reading too much into it but I feel as if the writer is almost turning his nose up at Off-Broadway.
Juke Box shows and movie adaptations dominate the Great White Way, cotton candy and bubble gum pop for the tourist crowd
I whine after watching an MTV telecast of a musical about a girl who goes to law school to impress her boyfriend, “Then we’d actually see the high-quality, in-your-face, change-your-life kind of musicals that we should be seeing.”
It’s an absolute crime, a soul-crushing travesty, that this show is closing, while elsewhere lighthearted Abba tunes will be sung in seeming perpetuity.
Okay, seriously. Enough. Jukebox musicals and musicals based on movies are here to stay. Deal with it. If you don't want to see it then don't see it. But the constant whining about it is annoying and elitist. We can sit here and list musicals that are't 100% original. Gypsy, South Pacific, Oklahoma and on and on. Did people complain about those when they came out? Of course not every single one is going to be good but some of them actually are. Look at Xanadu. They took a terrible movie and pulled something really great out of it.
"All our dreams can come true -- if we have the courage to pursue them." -- Walt Disney
We must have different Gods. My God said "do to others what you would have them do to you". Your God seems to have said "My Way or the Highway".
#14Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 12:54pm
I agree, Eris. Little Shop of Horrors, Vampire Lesbians of Sodom, Blue Window, March of the Falsettos, Buried Child and more were all shows that became famous Off-Broadway and began long lives of subsequent productions.
Kick that abomination Stomp out of the Orpheum for starters and put a good, smart, clever show with text in. And breed some producers with the smarts to figure out how to turn a profit Off Broadway.
#15Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 4:20pm
"There really is no audience out there for this kind of brilliant, edgy, genius kind of writing because the audience died."
What a patently absurd statement. For one thing, it implies that the "audience" was predominantly gay men. Even before the tragedy of AIDS, gay men did not constitue the majority of the musical theater audience, nor was it even CLOSE to a majority. And, it implies that only gay men can appreciate this kind of "brilliant, edgy, genious kind of writing", which is just a bigoted statement.
CZJ at opening night party for A Little Night Music, Dec 13, 2009.
Ed_Mottershead
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/20/05
#16Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 4:31pm
"I am sick of people whining about how hard it is to sell a smart original musical on Broadway. It's hard to sell ANY musical- look at Xanadu: Shows don't come any more juke boxy or bubble gummy and it died like a dog."
I don't think a run of 514 performances (plus previews)is an indicator of dying like a dog. It may not have ended up in the black, but a run of over a year isn't shameful, considering it had no advance to speak of when it opened.
BroadwayEd
Mr Roxy
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/17/03
#17Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/8/10 at 6:28pm
To Dramamama
You can ignore it all you like, but high ticket prices do play a big part. They are going up yearly at a large clip. Many people here, other than me, have mentioned ticket prices (See Aja's post). Is it the main reason why it failed - no. Was it a contributing factor - definitely yes.
Poster Emeritus
Updated On: 12/8/10 at 06:28 PM
Wayman_Wong
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/22/04
#18Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/9/10 at 12:36am
I think most folks agree that Broadway musicals cost too much.
But take a look at last week's grosses. When it's a show that people WANT to see, they will pay: The average ticket price for 'Jersey Boys' was $132. The average ticket price for 'Elf' was $121; for 'Lion King' and 'Wicked,' $119. For 'Merchant of Venice,' $131. ... But for 'Scottsboro Boys,' only $50. Sadly, most audiences weren't interested.
#19Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/9/10 at 12:57am
I think part of it was the tickets prices:
Orchestra/Front Mezz: $131
Rear Orchestra/Rear Mezz: $99
Balcony: $39.50
They should of kept the prices lower, something like this:
Orchestra/Front Mezz: $110
Rear Orch: $90
Rear Mezz: $60
Balcony: $39.50
A Chorus Line revival played its final Broadway performance on August 17, 2008. The tour played its final performance on August 21, 2011. A new non-equity tour started in October 2012 played its final performance on March 23, 2013. Another non-equity tour launched on January 20, 2018. The tour ended its US run in Kansas City and then toured throughout Japan August & September 2018.
#20Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/9/10 at 1:26am
Of course ticket prices play a role. Plus these our not the most fun times for many people--including the ones who can still afford the tickets. Most people just want to have some escapest fun and I can't blame them.
I admire the creative producers who risk their money on the show which is a hard sell but I honestly question their business sense.
#21Scottsboro, Who is to blame?
Posted: 12/9/10 at 8:53am
"I admire the creative producers who risk their money on the show which is a hard sell but I honestly question their business sense."
Taking risks is part of any business. No guts no glory.
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