How long till Soul Doctor Closes? - Page 2

[elimeyer]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 12:48pm

While that was the original intent, to be the first Broadway show to not to perform on Shabbos & Yom Tov, the powers that be have somehow justified letting it go on like any other show. Not sure how they pulled that off. What a wasted opportunity. History and precedent could have been made.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 1:05pm

Sure! Lets make history by not performing right after we opened!

That should really bring 'em in!

[elimeyer]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 1:38pm

Since the producers and the director are Observant Jews, this would have been a great opportunity. If it opened on a Sunday you'd have a full week before taking Shabbos off.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 1:48pm

You know what is REALLY sad? No one knows the difference between lose and loose any more.

Well, language changes, especially an aspect of language as arbitrary and inconsistent as the spelling of English.

Incidentally, did you know that, at an earlier point in the history of English, a phrase equivalent to "sad girl" could be used to describe a happy boy?

[tazber]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 1:57pm

I was totally joking about the Shabbos thing. I had no idea it was actually considered.

[mar6411]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:00pm

Kdogg,

Confused by your post.

While language changes, are you saying that there is no longer a difference between lose and loose?

My observation is that people are careless writers - not that the language has changed.

[finebydesign]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:03pm

Doctor Who?

[ClydeBarrow]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:09pm

"Well, language changes, especially an aspect of language as arbitrary and inconsistent as the spelling of English."

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:12pm

"I was totally joking about the Shabbos thing. I had no idea it was actually considered."

It wasn't only considered, taz, it was scheduled. I don't know what made them change their minds.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:15pm

They probably cannot afford to.

[JuanValjean72]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:38pm

I'm actually kind of looking forward to seeing this. I heard that the book is all wrong and just doesn't work, but that Eric Anderson & Amber Iman's performances are great. I saw Chaplin which had serious book problems, but also had great individual performances, so it's hard to judge on just that, but I'm planning on seeing Soul Doctor soon. I hope it runs at least another month or so.

[darreyl102]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:47pm

[jnb9872]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:53pm

kdogg seems to show wherever someone laments poor english on these boards, as if its something to be defended. Defending either a lack of education (to know they're wrong) or a supreme sense of apathy and/or arrogance (to not care that they're wrong) is sad, to me.

And honestly, when SOUL DOCTOR was announced, I just assumed they'd be considering taking Shabbos off. (I always spelled it Shabbat, personally, but I was raised a Reform Jew so what the hell do I know? Literally next to nothing.)

As Kad rightfully pointed out, it would be so financially untenable to take that night off, and it honestly becomes a pretty important question of vision for the whole endeavor: is this production for the loyal faithful, who would follow that schedule, or is this production for the audience at large, to introduce them into Shlomo's life story? I think that question is pretty pertinent to the show as a whole. If they meant for the former, then it shouldn't be on Broadway (where the money would far outweigh the support that audience could give.) If they meant the latter, then they really would have benefited from some outside eyes in the creation of the project (Shlomo's daughter is heavily involved, and the Director/Bookwriter/Co-Lyricist is also a Talmudic scholar... not enough cooks in the kitchen, this time?)

[Kad]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 2:56pm

Well, if they were being true to keeping Shabbat ...it runs sundown to sundown. They would need to cancel the Saturday matinee, as well.

And either way, they would be losing Friday night, one of the most lucrative days of the week.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 3:06pm

"Well, if they were being true to keeping Shabbat ...it runs sundown to sundown. They would need to cancel the Saturday matinee, as well.

And either way, they would be losing Friday night, one of the most lucrative days of the week."

All true, but initially, that was what they planned. As you say, they likely decided it wasn't financially feasible. Maybe it's an exemption like eating pork if you'd starve because it was all you have to eat?

[kdogg36]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 3:12pm

kdogg seems to show wherever someone laments poor english on these boards, as if its something to be defended. Defending either a lack of education (to know they're wrong) or a supreme sense of apathy and/or arrogance (to not care that they're wrong) is sad, to me.

In my defense, my record includes many on-topic posts as well. :)

I expect people to command and use Standard English in situations where it's important, but, to me, it's just not that important on internet message boards. Accordingly, I'm not bothered at all by posts that include nonstandard grammar, spelling, or usage, but I am bothered by the constant barrage of posts correcting other people's use of nonstandard language.

I've recognized in the past few days that people are also bothered when I express the fact that I'm bothered. :) Accordingly, I apologize for getting the thread off-topic and will not to do it again.

[elimeyer]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 3:22pm

Actually it COULD have been done, Double show Sunday and Wed and LATE show Sat night after Shabbos ends would give you an 8 show week. NONE of the previous incarnations of the show played on Shabbos or Holidays, and the plan WAS to do the same for the Broadway run. Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it couldn't be done.

As for the comment about eating pork to save your life in a life and death situation isn't at all like opening a show on Broadway. That being said, getting the story of R' Shlomo out there is NOT a life and death situation that would allow performances on Shabbos and I'm pretty sure that he would not have approved of it either. I'm not sure what input his daughter had in the performance schedule.

There is only ONE situation where 'operating a business' on Shabbos is allowed. It's called a "Shtar Mechirah" and basically the 'business' is sold to a non-Jewish partner for the day and he gets the profits of that day as his pay and the Jewish owner(s)do not benefit financially from the profit of the day. This applies to Shabbos and Jewish Holidays. It's a difficult to arrange and wouldn't allow Jewish performers to perform on Shabbos and/or be paid for their day either. It also would never be allowed if there were the possibility that other Jews would violate Shabbos laws by attending.

[Kad]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 3:27pm

Again, they are still losing Friday and Saturday matinee, two very lucrative performances, and they risk losing their audience if they start later on a Saturday night.

They're on Broadway now. They cannot afford to risk losing gross.


It's not a question of "could," it's a question of "should."

Financially, they should not.

Updated On: 8/16/13 at 03:27 PM

[Rainbowhigh23]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 3:29pm

I'm seeing the show tonight and hope I can make a honey cake in time for curtain call.

[ghostlight2]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 3:34pm

"As for the comment about eating pork to save your life in a life and death situation isn't at all like opening a show on Broadway. That being said, getting the story of R' Shlomo out there is NOT a life and death situation that would allow performances on Shabbos and I'm pretty sure that he would not have approved of it either. I'm not sure what input his daughter had in the performance schedule."

I do apologize if I offended you, elimeyer. I was, in fact (mostly) joking. Religions have forever found ways around their own rules, much in the same way Rabbi Shlomo did break barriers by having unmarried men and women together.

And it's worth saying that Jewish performers perform on Shabbos all the time.

[elimeyer]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 4:24pm

True and sad that Jewish performers do not all observe Shabbos. What a wonderful world it would be if everyone always did what they could be doing.

The point I was making is that the Rabbis wouldn't allow the 'sale of the show' that I spoke about IF it would cause another Jew to NOT keep Shabbos. The onus would be on the shows owners to make sure that doesn't happen. Of course this refers to owners that are Observant and the responsibility they bear.

One day, it will happen. Thought it would be this show. Hoped it would be this show. There's always tomorrow...

[averagebwaynut]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 4:35pm

elimeyer,

For someone whose website proclaims him "the king of broadway", you're showing a bit of naivete when it comes to the business of Broadway.

Yes, it's physically possible to play an 8-performance week on Broadway without playing Friday nights and Saturday afternoons ( and Saturday nights for roughly 1/2 of the year). But playing two shows on Sunday adds even greater cost (playing even one Sunday show is more expensive than playing Monday to Saturday). Most unions do not allow performance times that would have made it possible to play a late show on Saturday nights in the summer -- at least without a further premium. And in general, shows that are not yet established hits playing performances at off-times have a dubious track record. (And avoiding yom tov as well would be a disaster in September alone as it's not physically possible to play 8 shows over Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday afternoon per union rules -- which is what they would need to do in 3 of the 4 weeks of September -- but the producers would still have to pay for 8 shows per week).

So yes, history could have been made -- but at what cost? And what point would really be made?

Sure, if money was no object, then on a personal level given my background, I would get a kick out of seeing a Broadway show that was strictly "shomer shabbos" (and yom tov. But Broadway shows are a business that have a financial obligation to their investors (unless the contemplated schedule was disclosed all along to everyone who invested). Sacrificing the best chance at financial success in service of making a religious, spiritually satisfying choice is foolhardy at best and malfeasance/mismanagement at worst. Heck, even in Israel, the major professional theatres have performances on shabbos (or shabbat -- jnb9872, both are correct) because they recognize that the audiences for their shows are more varied and their best chance at financial success is to cater to everyone and not just a niche market.

Bottom line: a producer should schedule performances to take best advantage of when people are likely to come. As jnb9872 noted, if they want to be a Broadway show, spend Broadway money and charge Broadway prices, it serves them well to perform when the Broadway audience -- not just the observant Jewish audience -- can attend. Or at the very least, become a hit first and THEN mess around with the performance schedule. If you're hit, they'll come whenever you have shows. If you're not, they ain't gonna come no matter how creative you are with the performance schedule.

Sadly, the latter seems to be more applicable here.

[WhizzerMarvin]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 4:36pm

I'm sorry mother, but to me the theater is a temple.

What, so it should only be filled on Shabbat?

[elimeyer]

Posted: 8/16/13 at 5:22pm

Dear averagebwaynut, I am anything but naive when it comes to being a Shomer Shabbos Actor (SAG-AFTRA/AEA Card holder here) living in a non Shomer Shabbos world. The challenges are great and sometimes difficult to understand.

Friday night is indeed THE night for Entertainment for Americans and yes, sadly there are Jews among those who go out. I still think that this could be pulled off. I do realize that mounting a show on Broadway is a multimillion dollar undertaking these days and yes, deep pockets and unlimited resources would be needed and they DO exist! There are people that could make this happen without flinching. The High Holidays would indeed present an interesting concept in performance scheduling and I am sure that Unions would have to be educated as to why this would be important and necessary - still, I think it could be done.

So, that's about the cost now, to what purpose? That's simple. Just because it's never been done in recent history doesn't mean it can be done. The Folksbiene Yiddish Theatre doesn't perform on Shabbos or Yom Tov (for future reference Shabbos and Shomer Shabbos will henceforth refer to all Jewish Holy days). Broadway and Broadway Audiences would get used to the concept of a Jewish Show not performing on Shabbos. Producers would survive, actors would survive and shows would survive. Why? We keep Shabbos because we believe in G@d who gave us Torah and commanded us to observe it's laws. We also believe that G@d wouldn't cause us to lose our livelihood because of our observance and provides what we need in spite of our not working on Shabbos. That same belief system is what we trust would keep a show that observes Shabbos alive. Whether you are such a believer or not doesn't affect the belief of those who would want to produce a Shomer Shabbos Broadway Show.

Originally, this was to be such a show. Everyone involved knew about it and was prepared to perform in it as such a show. What happened along the way, I do not know. We could spend a lifetime pondering and never really know. Perhaps someone from the show will read this thread and tell us, but I doubt it.

As for Israel - well, it pains me to admit that not all Israelis are observant, indeed much of the religious community both here AND in Israel wouldn't attend a Broadway (type) show due to many issues not having to do with Shabbos. We weren't talking about that/them anyway.

Again, whether you agree that it's possible or not won't deter me from finding a way if I ever get the chance. I have turned down roles both in Film/TV and Theater because they wouldn't accommodate my Shabbos observance - AND have had some GREAT roles where they bent over backwards to make sure I could be involved and keep my religious beliefs. Cameron Mackintosh allowed Dudu Fisher to be Shomer Shabbos when he played Jean ValJean in Les Mis in Israel, England and several times in the USA with Sat night shows holding the curtain till after Shabbos ended.

As for your proposal to become a hit first, then revise the schedule, wouldn't that defeat the purpose from the start? Although we always welcome Jews who decide to become religious whenever and wherever, so it would be great if this show would become a Shomer Shabbos show later in the run!

I hope you can understand the thought. I didn't mean for us to get into the GREAT SHOMER SHABBOS THEATER DEBATE OF 2013, just posted my dismay that they gave up.

Time to get ready - dinner has to be made before Shabbos!
Candle lighting tonight is at 7:36pm and ends Sat night at 8:36pm
I hope yours is peaceful and meaningful.
-elli-