How is Hamilton holding up?

[binau]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 4:07pm

I was shocked to hear at the closing of ‘old friends’ in London a naive audience member was saying at intermission they didn’t realise that songs like ‘getting married today’ actually existed before Lin Manual Miranda (LOL). But it also made me think that it’s been almost 10 years since Hamilton debuted - that is enough time now to reflect on whether Hamilton’s themes and musical style have stood the test of time or feel outdated. Thoughts? Is Hamilton still cool?

Updated On: 1/7/24 at 04:07 PM

[quizking101]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 4:18pm

I think using the term "cool" for a musical infers that a show's popularity has a shelf life and is entirely subjective. 

HAMILTON has gone far beyond the zeitgeist to become an established part of musical theatre history and canon because it reinvented the genre, has cross-generational appeal, and even increased interest in American history. With new people always discovering the show and the fact that the theatre has seldom, if ever, been less than 90% full, HAMILTON is about as much of a mainstay as PHANTOM or WICKED

[Phantom4ever]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 5:07pm

I was fully on the Hamilton bandwagon back in 2015 and I just saw it for the 19th time last month. The performances are still uniformly strong, and I still got emotional and excited at the right times. To me the one thing that seems dated is the costumes. In 2015 we were firmly in the grips of skinny jeans and big giant chunky boots style era. Yes I know the aesthetic in Hamilton come from the 18th century footwear style, but 18th century women didn't walk around in giant boots and leggings. Now that mom jeans are back in style, it does look "throwback."  

As a high school teacher, when it comes up with my students, they only reference it as being on Disney+, and they are confused when I talk about going to see it live, asking why anyone would do that, etc. 

The tour in Chicago is promoting its low prices which is never a good sign. And....shocker of all shockers, Hamilton is up on Hottix, which is Chicago's equivalent of TKTS. We are definitely a long way away from people saying "I only had to sit on the sidewalk for four days before I got tickets!" lol

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 5:51pm

Six feels like a direct response to the success of Hamilton, and it's very successful in its own right.  But I don't think Hamilton has had as much immediate effect on musical styles as we might have expected (of course, many of those could still be in the pipeline).  When there are fast talking songs in newer shows, those still feel like the more musical theater style patter songs rather than Hamilton-inspired rap style.  And I still don't think there's really been as big of a crossover hit (or even one that comes remotely close) in the time since Hamilton happened.

But in the sense of the show itself, I think it still holds up well.  There was some discourse during the pandemic of how the show portrayed race and used musical genres in the way that it did, but I don't think that's really harmed the show or its perception much--maybe just made people a bit more aware of how those dynamics work (and most people outside of the theater insiders probably didn't pay much attention to it at all).  It's not as hot of a ticket to get anymore (though still popular), but I think it still thrills people and to me still feels more innovative than a lot of work we've gotten recently.  I think it also helps that cast members seem to be given a wide range of interpretations for their characters, so the show can feel completely different depending on the cast you see.

[jkcohen626]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 7:00pm

chrishuyen said: "I don't think Hamilton has had as much immediate effect on musical styles as we might have expected (of course, many of those could still be in the pipeline). When there are fast talking songs in newer shows, those still feel like the more musical theater style patter songs rather than Hamilton-inspired rap style. And I still don't think there's really been as big of a crossover hit (or even one that comes remotely close) in the time since Hamilton happened."

I completely agree with this. 9 years post-Hamilton seems like the prime time for the emergence of shows inspired by it and, to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been much. 

I don't know that anything will come close to Hamilton-mania for quite a while, but I think it does definitely feel like we're kinda due for a "next big thing" (which to me would be something that can last a decade). If there was something in the pipeline that could do that, my bet would be Gatsby. But, the existence of Great Gatsby makes that less certain. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 8:03pm

I would never put money on a new show hitting the zeitgeist in the way that Hamilton did from 2015-17. That's kind of a once-in-a-generation hit that you usually can't see coming. A new show would be lucky to have a run on the level of Hadestown or Come From Away or Waitress.

Updated On: 1/7/24 at 08:03 PM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 9:00pm

I saw the current sit down in Chicago and it was my first time seeing the show. The production on a whole - direction, etc - was great but the performance all felt lacking. The only standout to me was Eliza and Thomas Jefferson. It’s not an easy show and it just felt like most of the cast wasn’t up to the task. 

[quizking101]

Posted: 1/7/24 at 10:51pm

jkcohen626 said: "I don't know that anything will come close to Hamilton-mania for quite a while, but I think it does definitely feel like we're kinda due for a "next big thing" (which to me would be something that can last a decade). If there was something in the pipeline that could do that, my bet would be Gatsby. But, the existence of Great Gatsby makes that less certain."

Regardless of how Chavkin’s GATSBY is received (and after the tepid Papermill production), I see very little chance of any show based on the Gatsby IP hitting “next big thing” territory. It’s a well-trod road with multiple adaptations and is also part of every high school curriculum. There is absolutely nothing novel (pun intended) about it that would push it to the heights of HAMILTON

[Jonathan Cohen]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 1:03am

I just saw on social media that the current leads of The Book of Mormon did a cameo at the Gutenberg! musical. Seeing them side by side next to Andrew Rannells and Josh Gad, I was struck that even though it's been over 10 years, The Book of Mormon is still casting leads who look like the people who originated the roles. 

To that point I last saw Hamilton on Broadway in January 2022. I really enjoyed but it was for sure not the same experience as seeing it during the first couple of years. With long running shows like Hamilton, Chicago, or Phantom of the Opera, you're basically seeing a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. 

Really talented performers are putting their efforts into replicating the performance frozen in amber on Disney+. Financially what I'm saying is nuts but creatively the best thing for Hamilton would be to put the show on the shelf for 10 years. Then give a director with a fresh take the opportunity to reinterpret the material.  Thomas Kail knocked it out of the park, but musicals need to be reinterpreted to stay vital.  

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 8:20am

I saw the Broadway production in April 2022 and again in February 2023, and I thought the show was in excellent shape.

Wish they'd freshen up the touring production currently playing in Chicago.  The last time I saw the tour was in summer of 2022 in Washington, DC.  I saw the show 6 times during their stay, and I never saw the show with the full cast.  I think the first time I saw it, most of the principal men were out.  The women fared better than the men.  I wish they transferred the Angelica tour to Chicago as opposed to the Phillip company.

That being said, I saw the touring production of Moulin Rouge numerous times this past summer in DC, and the cast had excellent attendance.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 8:32am

Good on you for seeing it so many times. I think when the show shines it shines, but Act 2 feels endless to me. 

I'm not sure if it's true, but Suffs feels at least partially inspired by Hamilton. 

[Det95]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 8:57am

I've seen Hamilton four times: twice on Broadway (OBC, and the week of 9/14/2021) and both times it came through Detroit. Obviously I loved the OBC and when I saw it in 2021 I loved it again, but I really think that was because I weas caught up in seeing theatre again. Both times I saw it in Detroit it was like 'meh'. The last time it came through I went with some people who had never seen it before and in order to not ruin their experience I talked about how I was paying more attention to lighting design and other technical elements this time. I feel like Hamilton has entered the long running show phase where we get marking and people just going through the motions. I have no desire to see Hamilton again anytime soon, but can't wait to see Wicked for the 10th(?) time in a couple weeks. 

[Zeppie2022]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 9:08am

"As a high school teacher, when it comes up with my students, they only reference it as being on Disney+, and they are confused when I talk about going to see it live, asking why anyone would do that, etc."

This made me feel sad. Young people not getting the wonder of seeing a live performance of show. I don't think you can match the thrill of seeing a show in the moment in comparison to watching it on film. Heck, what do I know - ha ha.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 9:17am

Det95 said: "I've seen Hamilton four times: twice on Broadway (OBC, and the week of 9/14/2021) and both times it came through Detroit. Obviously I loved the OBC and when I saw it in 2021 I loved it again, but I really think that was because I weas caught up in seeing theatre again. Both times I saw it in Detroit it was like 'meh'. The last time it came through I went with some people who had never seen it before and in order to not ruin their experience I talked about how I was paying more attention to lighting design and other technical elements this time. I feel like Hamilton has entered the long running show phase where we get marking and people just going through the motions. I have no desire to see Hamilton again anytime soon, but can't wait to see Wicked for the 10th(?) time in a couple weeks."

I will say I had great admiration for the design/direction. The lighting alone is remarkable. 

[hearthemsing22]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 10:00am

Jonathan Cohen said: "I just saw on social media that the current leads of The Book of Mormon did a cameo at the Gutenberg! musical. Seeing them side by side next toAndrew Rannells and Josh Gad, I was struck that even though it's been over 10 years, The Book of Mormon is still casting leads who look like the people who originated the roles.

To that point I last saw Hamilton on Broadway in January 2022. I really enjoyed but it was for sure not the same experience as seeing it during the first couple of years. With long running shows like Hamilton, Chicago, or Phantom of the Opera, you're basically seeing a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.

Really talented performers are putting their efforts into replicating the performancefrozen in amber on Disney+. Financially what I'm saying is nuts but creatively the best thing for Hamilton would be to put the show on the shelf for 10 years. Then give a director with a fresh take the opportunity to reinterpret the material. Thomas Kail knocked it out of the park, but musicals need to be reinterpreted to stay vital."

LOL. Would you do the same for Book of Mormon? Wicked? The Lion King? When their grosses are not indicating they should close? Yes, it is nuts. 

Updated On: 1/8/24 at 10:00 AM

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 11:48am

I do think Elphaba should fly out over the audience. 

[Det95]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 12:22pm

RippedMan said: "Det95 said: "I've seen Hamilton four times: twice on Broadway (OBC, and the week of 9/14/2021) and both times it came through Detroit. Obviously I loved the OBC and when I saw it in 2021 I loved it again, but I really think that was because I weas caught up in seeing theatre again. Both times I saw it in Detroit it was like 'meh'. The last time it came through I went with some people who had never seen it before and in order to not ruin their experience I talked about how I was paying more attention to lighting design and other technical elements this time. I feel like Hamilton has entered the long running show phase where we get marking and people just going through the motions. I have no desire to see Hamilton again anytime soon, but can't wait to see Wicked for the 10th(?) time in a couple weeks."

I will say I had great admiration for the design/direction. The lighting alone is remarkable."

I don't disagree, but when I had to skirt around the performances asd talk about the lighting you know it wasn't a good performance.

[QueenTwinnied]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 12:51pm

I don’t necessarily agree that the current performers are “replicating the performance frozen in amber.” I’ve seen the show five times over the years both on tour and Broadway. I was always impressed by how the new casts were able to make some of the material seem fresh with different little riffs and options. Jefferson and George especially have a lot of room to play with, which has made repeat viewing fun imo. 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 12:53pm

Jefferson was the strongest, but it was mostly the vocals/acting that were lacking. Like the tour's "Wait for It" - great vocals but not great performance/acting - and same with the King George. His humor wasn't really connecting with the audience. Kind of felt like he was told to play it a certain way.

[darquegk]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 1:16pm

I don’t know if it was here or Reddit or Facebook, but I did read recently that Wicked is experimenting with “locking in.” Elphaba actresses are supposedly being asked to sing Idina’s riffs as recorded on the cast album, not to go in their own direction.

[Seb28]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 7:42pm

I think the show does not have the quality to stand the test of time. It feels dated and I think it is not written very well. It is hard to feel with any of the characters and some of them seem nothing more than filling material. The writing feels forced and tiresome and often feels like a parody. 

The German production flopped and only ran for a few months. Some shows run for years over there.

Maybe it appealed to a certain American audience, and perhaps some people in the UK fell for the hype too, but I don't see it succeeding in any other country in the world.

 

Updated On: 1/9/24 at 07:42 PM

[emlo99]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 7:52pm

Seb28 said: “... but I don't see it succeed in any other country in the world."

 

Perhaps with the exception of the Philippines. I saw a post on instagram with 100,000 comments of Filipinos very excited for Hamilton to visit there.

[QueenTwinnied]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 8:45pm

Does it really matter if Hamilton doesn't succeed in other countries like Germany? The show is about American history (and to a lesser extent British), so it makes sense the show might not connect with international audiences. It's still doing remarkably well on Broadway and the West End, and a UK tour recently launched. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 8:57pm

Evita was about Argentine history. Les Mis was about French. Here Lies Love was about the Philippines.

If the material is strong enough, it should hold up anywhere.

[Islander_fan]

Posted: 1/8/24 at 9:51pm

I think that this show is doing very very well internationally. I think that Germany wasn’t the best place for this show to go to however. In Germany the bigger sellers are big flashy mega musicals. Musicals like Wicked, Lion King Phantom and more. Compared to those, Hamilton is very minimalistic.

It should be noted that, the show is doing an international tour now. And, when the show played in New Zealand, it wasn’t done in a theatre, it was done in an arena. Something that the international tour is doing for the second stop on its tour when it hit Abu Dhabi. 

 

Photo of Hamilton at Spark Arena New Zealand.

Wasn’t sure how to embed a photo into the body of my post. But, that is a photo from a view from my seat.