WEST SIDE STORY best musical ever!?- Page 2

[Tir Na Nog]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 12:30pm

The greatest musical of all time is "Follies" followed closely by "My Fair Lady" and "Gypsy".

[ally_kay_on_broadway]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 12:31pm

It is my personal favorite, which is why (of course) i'm saying yes.

It has the three most important elements that make a musical: singing, acting and dancing and they are all done very well (in the productions i have seen, anyway)

I see alot of people saying RENT but i just didn't fall enough for the characters as much as i did in west side story.

[peach]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 12:34pm

I can't pick just one for "best musical ever," but I'd definitely put West Side Story at the top of any best musicals list.

See wickedrentq's rationale above. Sums up my thoughts pretty much. Plus WSS happens to be one of my personal favorites - mostly because of the brilliant dancing.

[ABoyLikeThat]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 12:46pm

I wouldn't say best musical ever necessarily since I think it's not perfect but it definitely has one of, if not the best, scores out there. In all honesty, the score is simply astounding.

[Jon]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 1:52pm

I feel bad for the RENTheads who don't like the music in WSS. Jonathan Larson was a huge fan of that score. He mentions it in Tick Tick Boom.

[peach]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 1:58pm

Good point Jon...

"Michael and I got parts in West Side, at White Plains High..."


Updated On: 2/28/06 at 01:58 PM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 2:24pm

"I don't think Rent or Les Miserables could ever be considered the best overall musical of all time, if there is a such a thing. If we're looking at all elements of a musical, there needs to be great dancing. Miserables has no dancing and Rent has very little. Thus, they don't qualify even though the music is great."

WHAT? A musical does not have to have dancing to be considered the best or one of the best musicals of all time. That's ridiculous. I don't think either is the greatest musical of all time, but by your standard, your neglecting some of the greatest material out there. Like Sweeney Todd, for example.

[keatonbynumbers]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 2:45pm

I don't know if it's the best. I'm with wickedrentq, in that it's difficult (if not impossible) to pinpoint the best musical of all time; easier, though, is to pinpoint what musicals are included in the bracketing of several musicals that are the best of all time. And WSS would certainly fall under that heading. As would Gypsy, Fiddler, MFL... but I'd also argue that those four are all somewhat in the same vein and all occurred around the same time--so arguments should be made for musicals that preceded them, like Show Boat and Oklahoma!, and musicals that came after, like Follies, maybe Sweeney Todd, and then later on Les Miz, Rent, etc. The question is not whether or not these musicals are everyone's favorite (Rent alone is a contentious subject); rather the question is how influential are these musicals?

WSS is not exactly my favorite musical, but I can't pretend that the music and orchestrations didn't have longstanding effects in musical theatre, nor can I pretend that the dramatic structure of it isn't important for the evolution of the book musical. But I can't really pretend that for the other musicals I mentioned above, either. The only argument I can make for WSS is that it's in a perfect spot. Years after the concept of the "book musical" has really been invented, and years before what we can consider contemporary Broadway, it's sort of at that perfect climax in the timeline--you know, this point where they were just getting things right and musical theatre was really evolving.

[bwaybabe85]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 3:57pm

Speaking of WSS, is it still supposed to be revived on Broadway next year?

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 4:02pm

I don't feel comfortable calling it THE best. I'd have hard time picking a number one, but I do feel that shows like Sweeney and Gypsy would beat out WSS.

I definitely think it is in the top 10 though.

[ljay889]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 4:12pm

Well GYPSY is generally considered the best book musical of all time. There is a thread on this from several months ago.

I feel really bad for Rentheads, that is all I'm going to say. Expand your limited theatre taste! RENT has some of the worst Broadway lyrics ever.

[Urban]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 4:20pm

To me it once was. I consider 'West Side Story' my springboard into Musical Theatre land. But once I got here I had my eyes opened and I saw how many damn wonderful and better musicals there are.

Honestly I still have a real special place for WSS but it doesn't crack my Top 10 these days. My personally favorite is 'Ragtime' with 'Gypsy' normally running a close second. Well favourite/obessed most with... same thing really.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 4:23pm

"Well favourite/obessed most with... same thing really."

Favorite isn't necessarily the same thing as best.

Gypsy is one of the best musicals of all time, but it is not even in my top 10 as far as favorite (while fairly mediocre shows like RENT are in my top 10).

[TheaterAddict7652]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 4:51pm

WSS is one of my favorite musicals, and in my opinion one of the best, but I think that it's hard to say what "the best" musicals of all time are, since different people have different opinions on what makes a good musical.

That being said, I think that WSS's score is one of the best scores of all time, along with Jerome Robbins' choreography. I also agree with everyone who said that it is one of the most influential musicals of all time- along with Oklahoma, My Fair Lady, Fiddler, A Chorus Line, etc.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 5:55pm

Some great points brought up here.

Jon has a great point about West Side being in Tick Tick Boom...a bit of it is also included in Avenue Q(and it's acknowledged that they took that bit from WSS), in Purpose: "Could it be, yes it could, something's coming, something good"...from "Something's Coming." Still influencing musicals a lot today.

In terms of influential musicals, obviously Showboat and Oklahoma are right up there with WSS, and again arguing the little nitpicky points about which of those is most influential is ridiculous (though I was thrilled WSS was voted most influential ) Influential certainly plays a part but is not the only thing that acknowledges best I think. Take Oklahoma. For the time it was made, it was groundbreaking and EXTREMELY influential. No matter my feelings on the show, I can't deny that. But I wouldn't argue it as one of the best musicals--the dream ballet is much better executed in WSS for example. Then again for the time, it was pretty amazing, and one wouldn't fault that for example. It's hard but I think if we're just talking "best" we need to let time play a bit of, but not a huge, factor. Showboat I mean was obviously fantastic for its time, considering there were no musicals w/ plots around, but obviously it has its flaws.

ABoyLikeThat, the only show I've ever heard perhaps described as "perfect" is Gypsy, and...this is totally another thread, why I think personal bias comes in when picking the one best, but I personally think WSS's amazing score and choreography makes up for its small flaws to be on Gypsy's level. Gypsy aside, what shows would you call perfect and please explain their perfection.

I'm not sure where dancing comes into play. A great musical doesn't have to have dancing, but it can be important. Maybe when you get up to the best of the best, some shows are so close that one having amazing dancing and not having any separates them? I don't know. I feel like it doesn't influence the greatness of any show, but when you're comparing, the show that doesn't have dancing has to surpass the other show in other elements maybe?

And let's be honest. My 3 favorite shows are West Side Story, Wicked, and Rent. I pretty much equally love them all for different reasons. I "get" Rent and Wicked, I acknowledge their positive aspects. But if I'm arguing the best show, I cannot overlook their flaws. I still love them, a LOT more than Gypsy as I've already mentioned, but there is no question in my mind that Gypsy is a better musical.

Finally, I'd like to hear more arguments than just answers. Those of you who have said you wouldn't even consider West Side Story as one of the best, please explain why. And I know arguments for Gypsy, but would like to hear more in-depths reasoning for some of the others shows you guys have chosen as the best.

BTW, as demonstrated by my signature...I am absolutely loving reading some of the comments said here

[Dirty Rotten Scoundrel]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 6:19pm

I personally can not stand West Side Story...don't kill me for my opinion...I realize that it's based on Romeo and Juliet, but I don't like the plot in the specific setting, don't like the score, or the songs. That's just my opinion...

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 6:42pm

West Side Story is an incredible show, but as far as being the best musical ever, the lyrics are subpar Sondheim and the book is a little flowery. BUT these are only opinions, and Sondheim wrote his most memorable lyrics (helped by the popularity of the movie) for West Side Story. I can't see how anyone could ever be bored by this score. It's vibrant, surprising, memorable, and often beautiful. The songs are a part of our cultural landscape.

Often people criticize the dancing gangs thing to be ridiculous. I don't really get why this is so ridiculous. After all, they are... singing, aren't they? Aren't they on a stage? Wearing costumes? Is it so ridiculous that they may dance too?

Theater isn't meant to be real. That's why they make movies.

As for RENT being a realistic musical, RENT is a fairy tale with a slight bite. When it first came out it received criticism because it sugar coated its time and issues. This is the musical that gives us such maxims as "No Day But Today!". RENT is nearly overflowing with sappiness. It tries to be real, but if you poke one hole in it it all falls apart.

And really, it's not the greatest score. The lyrics suck. The music is fun and catchy, sure, but I think it's already starting to show its age (not that it was really ever contemporary). For all of RENT's enormous success, it's heartbreaking that Jonathan Larson never had the chance to write something that may actually have lasted forever.

I think it's subjective. After all, we know that Gypsy is a great musical because every element is perfectly aligned and well done.

I think the real strengths of a show are how memorable its characters are. Musical books can be great but by their nature they must be slim and forgotten. Great choreography will always live in the moment it was conceived and presented. Great lyrics usually need great music to go along with it (although it's not and vice versa) and great music will live forever with or without the show to back it up. History proves, in fact, that the other elements must be up to par and as integral as the music to have any longevity. But all these things come together to bring us characters like Mama Rose, Mrs. Lovett, Bobby, Margaret Johnson, Carmen, Tosca, Butterfly, go back as far as you want.

In a case like West Side Story, Anita is about the most memorable character, but the characters are archetypes, they're characters we've known all our lives. And they sing some great songs. This is a case of all the elements aligning just right.

And then take Gypsy. All the elements are aligned just right except there's that pesky Mama Rose, who's so well written and interesting she elevates the whole thing to the next level.

[Fantabulous428]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 6:56pm

I love WSS, however, how can I say it is the best musical ever without seeing *every* musical?

So, my answer is no answer.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 7:06pm

Haha! Subways are for Sleeping! BEST MUSICAL EVER.

[ihearttheatre]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 7:15pm

I love WSS, and I think it's amazing, but I don't think I could label it as the absolute "best". It seems that by saying so everything is suddenly limited, that aspects of other musicals can't be better. Also, I doubt anyone has seen every musical, so how can the best ever be determined?

[keatonbynumbers]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 7:28pm

I think we need a definition for what best is. We've established that "best" and "favorite" are not the same things--and although I went off on what musicals are influential, "best" and "influential" are not the same thing, either. What's meant by best? For example, as far as I'm concerned, "Company" is one of the most perfect scores ever created. It's one of my favorites, but more than that, I just think the score is perfect, doesn't have a bad moment in it. The book has its flaws--but even if the book was as perfect as the score, would it still be the best?

Many people have said that despite the fact that WSS has its share of flaws (memorable but silly lyrics, etc.) and that it isn't exactly their favorite, they still think it's the best. So I'm wondering what the accepted definition of "best" is.

[alterego]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 7:29pm

Not for me. I've never really liked it, sorry. I don't think there is a "best musical ever". For all we know the best musical ever is being written right now. We all have our favourites of course and WEST SIDE STORY isn't one of mine. I would put MY FAIR LADY above WSS but that's just personal choice. For me RENT doesn't even rank, once again personal choice. Incidently strange that this should come up today, I saw some of WSS last night on television and couldn't help but think how dated it seemed.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 9:12pm

Keaton...I personally view "best" as the combination of the closest to perfection as it could be(or if there are flaws, how many and how much do they take away from the show/how big they are, etc) while taking into account any aspects they not only did perfectly, but transcend(ed), going above and beyond in a certain area. IMO, WSS did that with dancing...perhaps orchestrations, but dancing more so. Influence should be taken into account I think, just not that much.

But that's why I think it's too difficult to argue for one best. People seem to agree that Gypsy is a perfect show, so it makes sense for them to choose it as best. IMO, because I feel aspects of WSS transcended what was called for, that makes up for its little flaws here and there. When picking one best, I think biases/favorites have to come in, which is why I said it's much more subjective to discuss some of the best.

I mean clearly each aspect has to be great if not perfect...score, book, appropriate choreography, the songs fitting in the show appropriately, each act being strong, etc.

[timote316]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 9:19pm

WSS is certainly up there, but I don't think there is a definitive best ever. It's in that upper ehelon of musicals, which also includes (to me anyway):

Guys and Dolls
Fiddler on the Roof
Sweeney Todd

[iheartcheyenne123]

Posted: 2/28/06 at 9:24pm

WSS is definitly a classic musical and by far one of the best. Although I love it to death, it's not the BEST.