"Wicked" plot holes

[mattnyc2]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:34am

I know that I probably deserve to be stoned to death for starting a "Wicked" thread, but here it goes. The other night I was talking to someone about Wicked, and after seeing the show a number of times we realized that there were several aspects of the show that don't make sense to us. Perhaps someone could clear up some of these questions for me...

SPOILERS ahead.

1)When Morrible summoned the tornado did she know that it would pick up a house that would kill Nessa? Since Dorothy's house was located in the "other" world, did Morrible have some interdimensional knowledge that nobody else was privy to?

2) Why exactly does Elphaba kidnap Dorothy? She never showed any huge interest in the shoes, besides having something to remember her sister by. Elphaba didn't need the shoe's power, since she was the one that gave them power in the first place. If the whole point of the play is to show us that Elphaba was really a nice person, having her kidnap a little girl in the last scene makes her come off as kind of a b!tch .

3) Morrible says that Elphaba had her powers because she "was a child of both worlds." How exactly did that give her magic powers?

4) After Glinda tells the Wizard to leave she orders the guards to put Morrible in jail. Why are they suddenly taking orders from Glinda now, when the Wizard and Morrible had previously been in power? It's not like they were in the room to hear Glinda blackmail the Wizard.

In high school whenever I had questions like this about a show, my drama teacher would just say "It's musical theatre, it doesn't have to make sense!" Discuss!

[sondhead]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:39am

5) Why is Glinda made Glinda the Good during Intemission

6) Why does everyone hate Elphaba so much (and I'm sorry, but releasing monkeys isn't enough)


The book, though boring and long to get through, at least took place over many years, placing Elphaba as a long-time fugitive. Wicked seems to want us to believe it all goes down in a matter of weeks and I just don't buy it. More than anything, I've NEVER heard an answer for why Glinda is suddenly Glinda the Good in the 2nd act, other than she has to get there by the end so that it makes sense within Wizard of Oz territory.

We could also discuss WHY there is a song in which the Wizard and Elphaba polka, but that's not so much a plot hole as just weird.

[Kringas]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:41am

You must have had a terrible drama teacher.

[mattnyc2]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:44am

kringas, you're right.

sondhead, I believe that the Wizard dubs her "Glinda the Good" as a reward for not telling everyone the truth about what happened in the Wizard's chambers (during "Defying Gravity).

Why does everyone hate Elphaba so much? In the first act I have no idea, other than being green. In the second act, I guess it's because the Wizard told them to. Good point!

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:46am

It's called 'willing suspension of disbelief.' Figure it out. Yes, there are plot holes. Obvious plot holes. However, why shouldn't we question anything else in the show....like, why is Elphaba green?

[parislover87]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:47am

I don't really think any of these are plot holes so much as just petty details left out because they would be BORING to hear about and are inconsequencial

[sondhead]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:50am

LoL Suspension of belief doesn't really work for huge gaping plot holes. Suspension of belief, when used properly in the theatrical sense, requires of suspension of belief to go with some expositionary details but then continues in a natural turn of events. It never has plot holes because that is theatrically unsatisfying.

[deadparrot]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 10:05am

"Wicked seems to want us to believe it all goes down in a matter of weeks and I just don't buy it."

I'm pretty sure there's a two-year gap between the end of Act I and the beginning of Act II, but I do agree that there are some plot holes, though some of the quibbles are left over from the book.

As for Elphaba, I think she's just a victim of being different in the midst of petty teenagers. Her greenness doesn't have to be characteristic of race; it signifies anything that sets someone apart from the group. Groupthink is a powerful thing during that time in your life--people often cling to what they know and reject what they don't. Once she crosses the Wizard, he's able to set in place a propaganda campaign that reinforces this groupthink. Look at the way totalitarian governments can manipulate their people.

I don't want to get entirely political here, but look at the way our government manipulated public opinion about Iraq. I've never been for the war, but when you think back to four years ago, they were throwing out insinuations left and right. To most, it seems flimsy now, but at the time it worked and they got 70%+ of the American public on their side.

[steven22]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 10:50am

shes green because of the elixer her mother drank while she was prenant with elphaba..the real dad of elphaba is the WIZARD..so that means the WIZARD gave elphabas mother the green elixer

Posted: 1/22/07 at 11:05am

the book isnt boring.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 11:22am

Steven22,

That wasn't even asked, and is obvious in the show.

[Kringas]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 11:27am

The elixir is red herring, I think. Look at this way - Oz and Nebraska (where the Wizard is from) don't exist within the same plane (or world, etc), so Elphaba is essentially the product of alien intermingling. Her mother and father aren't of the same world (and therefore species), which makes the green skin and powers a birth defect due to her mother's relations with someone not of her world.

[deadparrot]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 11:40am

"Steven22,

That wasn't even asked, and is obvious in the show."

I think Steven22 was referring to Yankeefan007's post.

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 11:53am

I remember at least three threads about this topic...

[WiCkEDrOcKS]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 11:53am

Double post. Updated On: 1/22/07 at 11:53 AM

[jpbran]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 12:04pm

"...after seeing the show a number of times.."

That's part of the reason this is coming up. Many shows, especially Wicked, are OK plot-wise after one viewing, but don't hold up to a lot of multiple-viewing scrutiny. I saw Wicked more than once (in NYC, then again in Chicago) and decided not to to think about plot specifics and just enjoy it on the surface. Which is fine; it's an enjoyable but certainly not DEEP show, unlike the more dense novel.

Some shows can hold up plot-wise after multiple visits (Sweeney Todd, Les Mis, Evita, Piazza, etc.) and under a fair level of scrutiny. Wicked, Rent, and other otherwise enjoyable shows often can not.
Updated On: 1/22/07 at 12:04 PM

[FosseForever3]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 12:12pm

^ agreed. and I think that's ok too, as long as you appreciate the show for what it is.

OT: let's please not compare a war in which young men and women are fighting every day to protect us - to Wicked plot holes. It is insensitive and a bit rude.

[B3TA07]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 12:28pm

2) Her motivation is supposed to be that the shoes represent her father's love, which she never had.


It's all done much better in the book.

[winston89]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 12:29pm

I must admit that I do loose sleep wondering these Wicked plot holes.

[brad3]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 8:15pm

I remember in the movie Dorthy had to get the witched broom and bring it to the wizard. In the melting scene in the show, I dont even think she has the broom.

[BDrischBDemented]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 8:36pm

That's not really a plot hole, it's an inconsistency. Of which the musical is full of.

Posted: 1/22/07 at 8:51pm

yes alot of things are explained alot better in the book. but don't rely on the book to make things extremely clear about the musical. they are ALOT different.

[bella cantato]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 8:59pm

"1)When Morrible summoned the tornado did she know that it would pick up a house that would kill Nessa? Since Dorothy's house was located in the "other" world, did Morrible have some interdimensional knowledge that nobody else was privy to?"

You're over thinking it, but yes. Morrible wanted to kill Nessa, to get Elphaba. Remember, when Glinda says to use her sister? To trick her? And Morrible says, "She's too smart for that"? So yes, they use Dorothy to get Elphaba to come back so that they can capture her. As to the "interdimensional knowledge"... I guess it's fair to say that bc the Wizard is from our world, then yes, perhaps she does. But I don't think that's necessarily a "hole" in the plot.

"2) Why exactly does Elphaba kidnap Dorothy? She never showed any huge interest in the shoes, besides having something to remember her sister by. Elphaba didn't need the shoe's power, since she was the one that gave them power in the first place. If the whole point of the play is to show us that Elphaba was really a nice person, having her kidnap a little girl in the last scene makes her come off as kind of a b!tch ."

Have you ever lost a sister AND a father in the same day? I'm not saying I have, (and thank god for that), but I can only imagine the horror and pain a person would go through. Sure, Nessa was a little bitch, and her father hated her, but they were Elphaba's family. It would be enough to drive anyone crazy. She wanted those shoes to remember her family. It may seem irrational, but there are a lot of irrational things people do when they lose people they love. To me, it shows that Elphaba may have been starting to lose it by this point. She has already admitted defeat, (in "No Good Deed") and all she wants are these shoes as a memory. To me, it just develops the slight unraveling of her character.

"3) Morrible says that Elphaba had her powers because she "was a child of both worlds." How exactly did that give her magic powers?"

This IS a plot hole that the author should have foreshadowed at the very least. But it just did. It's an unsuccessful attempt at a "willing suspension of disbelief" which really shouldn't apply to PLOT so much as believing that Elphaba is flying, Glinda is riding in on a bubble, etc, etc. When they apply it to plot, it's really just poor writing and that's exactly what this musical is, unfortunately. (Even though I do LOVE Wicked, I can see that.)

"4) After Glinda tells the Wizard to leave she orders the guards to put Morrible in jail. Why are they suddenly taking orders from Glinda now, when the Wizard and Morrible had previously been in power? It's not like they were in the room to hear Glinda blackmail the Wizard."

Glinda is a huge public figure at this point, so she DOES have some say. Also, Morrible and the Wizard seem to submit to her almost instantaneously. For me, it showed the weakness of the Wizard's character. He realizes that he has done wrong and that he deserves Glinda's sentence, so basically goes along with it. Because he goes along with it, he also allows them to imprison Morrible without really any argument.

"In high school whenever I had questions like this about a show, my drama teacher would just say "It's musical theatre, it doesn't have to make sense!" Discuss!"

Yeah, that's terrible. And a poor excuse for bad writing.

I hope some of my answers helped you!

Updated On: 1/22/07 at 08:59 PM

[HollyImposter]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:08pm

“2) Why exactly does Elphaba kidnap Dorothy? She never showed any huge interest in the shoes, besides having something to remember her sister by. Elphaba didn't need the shoe's power, since she was the one that gave them power in the first place. If the whole point of the play is to show us that Elphaba was really a nice person, having her kidnap a little girl in the last scene makes her come off as kind of a b!tch.”

Elphaba loses her sister and Glinda gives Elphaba’s sister’s shoes to Dorothy. She knows they mean a lot to Elphaba so that Elphaba won’t harm Dorothy. Glinda has to act like Elphaba is a threat to keep her good name. Elphaba kidnaps Dorothy out of rage. She is fuming and on top of all of Oz hating her, Dorothy goes and takes her sister’s shoes and won’t give them back. Dorothy won’t give them back because in her mind according to Glinda, Elphaba would be able to kill her if she took them off.


“5) Why is Glinda made Glinda the Good during Intemission”

Because during intermission after Elphaba flied away they discussed during Defying Gravity what each of them were going to do. Elphaba flew off as an enemy and Glinda stayed back because she wanted the fame and all that jazz. Glinda knew everything that happened during all of that so Morrible probably offered her a place in power because Glinda acted loyal and it would get Glinda to shut up. At the time Glinda thought this was the right thing to do.


”6) Why does everyone hate Elphaba so much (and I'm sorry, but releasing monkeys isn't enough)”

Everyone hates Elphaba because Morrible made the announcement to the people of Oz that she was “WICKED” and she was supposed to be representing the thoughts of the Wizard who everyone looked up to like their God.

[mattnyc2]

Posted: 1/22/07 at 9:46pm

bella and holly, thanks for trying to clear up my questions. However, I probably didn't make myself very clear about #2.

I understand that Morrible starts the tornado to kill Nessa. However, the tornado starts on "earth", picks up Dorothy's house and drops it on Nessa. So did Morrible intend to kill Nessa with Dorothy's house, or did it just get picked up along the way?

I know I'm being anal by overanalyzing this small detail, but for some reason it really bugged me the last time I saw the show. Oh well, I guess I should stop thinking about it and pour myself another screwdriver and go to bed.