Is the Pirate Queen going to bomb?- Page 5

[Tiny_Dancer]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 2:09pm

That was eloquent Becca, and Elizabeth's name is Linda not Lisa.

[msls777]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 6:02pm

My two cents on this topic:

As a person who saw the Pirate Queen in Chicago, I won't say that it didn't have it's problems. But like many mentioned, you could see the seemingly latent potential in the show. Personally, I loved the music, and I have always loved Schönberg's scores. And just to argue a bit with lyric bashers, while I agree that the book was a bit weak and the musical not dramatized as well as it could have been, you can't take away from SOME of the beautiful lyrics in the show. I think people get caught up in the line "Tell me somebody, where has it been writ my life should come to sh-t?" or on Grania's balls. I think people who have been overtly pessimistic about this musical have clung onto these phrases (and negative reviews of the show) and used them as evidence of its weakness; what they haven't heard are lyrics such as "From a trampled seed can a flower grow? Can a fire be sparked from an embers glow?" (If I Said I Loved You) or some pretty catchy phrases, "In his arms may you know half the joy we have known. May his kiss keep you warm while my memory freezes you" (I'll Be There). In my opinion, the lyrics were quite poetic at times.

But opinions aside, I know I don't post much here and am not much part of the "BWW community" but please try to keep an open mind about this show.

As people mentioned before, shows start off-broadway for improvement. If the video before the Chicago opening is still on the Pirate Queen site, you'll perhaps see why the piece wasn't perfected before Chicago. To make a work improve, one must have critique and new opinions. Before the Pirate Queen opened in Chicago, Doherty and McColgan seemed simply to just be amazed at the work that Boublil and Schönberg had done--and if I were in their position, I probably also would have been amazed. Frank Galati uses practically every superlative when describing the score, and if the director believes every aspect of the score to be as perfect as Galati believed the Pirate Queen score to be, of course it's not going to undergo significant change. This was the difference between Trevor Nunn, Nicholas Hytner, and Frank Galati (in terms of Boublil and Schönberg musicals). I'm not saying it's not great to have nice personalities like Galati, but sometimes having a critical view of the score presented, as Nunn and Hytner did, will improve the score. Though, sometimes going too critical can be bad--but that's another story (for example, Edward Behr wrote that Nunn, who might have directed "Miss Saigon" believed many of its melodies to be derivative, and would have to be re-written). The point is, if Galati, before reherasals began, believed the score to be so perfect, Boublil and Schönberg had no input for improvement. They needed critique to improve, and that was supplied by Chicago.

That said, by playing a pre-Broadway run in Chicago, they got the critique they needed. And moreover, they added people to the creative team who recognized that there were flaws in the dramatization of the story or in the direction. Undoubtedly, with the critique in a pre-Broadway run, though Boublil and Schönberg may have been shocked, it's for the best in pointing them in the right direction.

And they certainly have listened to the critique. If you've seen the castcoms, you'll hear first-hand from so many different people of how many scenes have taken stride, how characters are more developed (for example, Sir Bingham's new incentive desire to try to become Elizabeth's lover to raise a child heir to the throne) and even, some scenes where Grania and Tiernan seem to be arguing with each other face-to-face (which I don't specifically recall from the Chicago performance)--just to name a few.

The creative team has been working so hard on this, turning their criticism into constructive improvement.

We haven't seen the new re-worked version of the Pirate Queen. But, one thing is certain: the criticism in Chicago was absolutely necessary to the progression of the show, and to use this criticism as a basis to say that the Pirate Queen will not succeed in New York is completely unfair.


What's the point of a pre-Broadway run if you can't take the negative aspects of a show and incur positive changes? The creative team of the Pirate Queen have undoubtedly taken these criticisms to heart, and have re-worked the Pirate Queen. To say it will bomb or to be so pessimistic about a show that has yet to open is completely unfair to the creative team and the producers--and these people have spent five years of their life working on this peice.

The least you could do is respect it or stay open-minded about it before it opens. If it does open and you don't like the show, bash it then. But don't be so negative about it before it even opens.


(And not that it is relevant to the Pirate Queen, but put in perspective some of the longest running shows in Broadway history that opened to negative reviews. Though Frank Rich praised Les Mis, he pretty much smashed Phantom, according to my memory. And did not the London reviewers of Les Mis say that it was "reduced to the glums" or even that its score and melodies were "not memorable"? And I'm sure many of you like shows that got terrible reviews, so once again, please keep an open mind about The Pirate Queen... a show that we haven't even seen yet).

[Broadway Baby4]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 7:41pm

That's what I heard.

I know I will not be seeing it even though I'm a fan of Stephanie Block.

[wicked4life51]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 10:02pm

pirate queen changed since the chicago run of the show
it was a pre broadway meaning getting everything ready for broadway and changing a lot
someone i know is in it
it will be open for a while
its the producers and writers of les mis, and miss saigon
so its going TO KILL THE BROADWAY STAGE

and guys in chicago
IT HAD ITS PRE BROADWAY RUN, IT WILL HAVE CHANGED AND MADE BETTER
I THINK SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SO CLOSED MINDED
GO SEE THE SHOW FOR YOURSELF DONT LISTEN TO WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE TO SAY SEE IT FOR YOURSELF AND YOU MAKE THE DECISION

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 2/17/07 at 10:07pm

Well said, msis777. Pirate Queen's producers were smart enough to test their new show out of town, and I am wishing all concerned the best. Tarzan is another show that I think could have been vastly improved if there had been a chance to make fixes after an out of town tryout.

Your point about Galati just praising the score endlessly in Chicago is a good one. From watching the Castcoms I got the impression that prior to PQ starting its Chicago run the entire production was just one big mutual admiration society. Sometimes there's nothing better for a new musical's development than to have a Hal Prince stopping a rehearsal and screaming at the top of his lungs "What is this SH*T??!!"

I will agree that the pre Broadway PQ did have some lovely, poetic lyrics, but there was simply no excuse for a lot of that other childish, mono syllabic drivel. The lyrics improved a great deal from the early previews to the Chicago opening, and that was before they brought Maltby in. I'm hoping for great things in NY.

But if I hear one word about Grania's balls this time...

Updated On: 2/17/07 at 10:07 PM

[Starlight2]

Posted: 2/18/07 at 6:05am

I saw the show in Chicago. I loved much of it....I thought some things needed to be changed. That appears to be what has happened. Some of the lyrics have been changed, more dancing has been added, some scenes have been reworked....it sounds to me as if they are headed in the right direction. And the cast....I can't say enough good things about the people in this cast! So talented! The singing was wonderful when I saw it in Chicago....Stephanie J. Block, Hadley Fraser...the whole cast....what a pleasure to hear them sing! They all truly sounded fantastic. I'm excited to be able to see PQ again when I go to NY! I believe that with all the new changes it's going to be a wonderful show!

Updated On: 2/18/07 at 06:05 AM

[AngusN]

Posted: 2/18/07 at 8:14am

fachedaluna - my two statements were not contradictory. I really want the show to be a huge success and believe that Broadway needs a new epic show, like The Pirate Queen. However, I just don't think that it will be a huge success. I don't think the general public like to take risks with shows they are not familiar with.
Thanks to Wannabe a Foster for clarifying my unclear statement.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 2/18/07 at 8:52pm

I believe Michael Musto said it best:

'Remember that "Garlic" number from Dance of the Vampires? Well they've made a whole show out of that.'

[fachedaluna]

Posted: 2/18/07 at 10:56pm

AugustN

How can you say that the public is not willing to take a risk on something they are not familiar with?

When Chorus Line first was introduced who was familiar with that story. When Miss Siagon was in the making was it a concern that no one would wish to see this epic because the young adults were not ontop of Vietnam (Not to say the story line was actually based on Madame Butterfly-how many have gone to the Opera?) What about Ragtime, Curtains, Mama Mia?????

I guess what I am trying to get across is...anything that is not a revival, and the audience has not heard of before, will be a risk. Whether the show is taken from a movie, a book, cartoon or whatever the venue, any unperformed work is always risk.

Even the revivals had an unknown beginning once-upon-a-time. Everything and anything unknown to the public is a risk, but that'n not a bad thing. We just need to experience it first before we can make an informed opinion/judgement.

I know that you really want the PQ to succeed, as I do, however allowing negative thought to be thrown out into cyber-land can affect a project more than you think. It's such a human trait to believe what you hear & read without doing your own first hand research (I can fall into that sometimes).

I'll say it again...LET THE SHOW FREEZE (WHICH WILL BE APRIL 5) then those who have seen the Pirate Queen can talk about the good and bad of it. Remember...critic reviews are only based on their subjective opinion. Heck, maybe they won't like the long hair on the men or something about the costuming or the Irish whistles...that doesn't mean that the show will be a disaster. (Everyone out there that reads this...I am writing out of love and concern for all shows that have or will be put in a negative light. We all need to be more sensitive to out of town previews, as well as the previews before opening.)

If your boss or teacher (even your parents) believe that you will fail before you even have your finished project...how does that make you feel and think?

[StephsFingersOwn]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 12:11am

For those who have constantly been negative about Pirate Queen and criticizing it like you know everything, or even just anyone who says it's going to bomb...here's something that Stephanie said in an interview when she was in Boy From Oz:

"I believe everyone has the right to express their opinion, but you hit it on the head when you commented about they way in which they express it. It is damaging. They speak with such authority and they really have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, especially during previews. For anyone to write about the future of a show after a dress rehearsal or preview performance is ridiculous. They obviously have not been a part of the process and have no idea of which they write. And the people that read these postings (or whatever they are called) should know that. I actually went on one day and read the boards. It was infuriating. I have no idea why people would want to expose their negative comments and ill feelings toward a show or performer for other strangers to read and comment on. What is the benefit of this? What purpose does it serve? I can't imagine that producer's read this and consider what is being said as valid. Audiences never lie. And if an actor is working in truth and a show is selling tickets, the Internet theatre boards aren't going to change that. I think it's a medium that is out there and will always be out there. I just don't understand the need to share hate, you know what I mean?"

I think many people of this board should think about what they post not only about Pirate Queen, but about other shows and actors as well.

SJB Interview

[FallintoLight]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 12:19am

fachedaluna is right. This is the era of musicals based on movies...and even those don't always succeed. Look at Wedding Singer and High Fidelity. I look at Broadway now and see so few original shows. Most are revivals or based on movies. Granted this is based on someones life it is also a story we are not familiar with. I think Broadway could use some new material. Look at the new things on broadway that aren't based on movies that have done well...Spelling Bee, Drowsy. People weren't familiar with these before hand, and they have still done well.

Again, I ask that you go in with an open mind. I'm not saying "LOVE the show!" I'm just saying make up your OWN mind! I'm fighting for this show because I believe it has potential. I think a lot of it is beautiful and it is also very beautifully acted. Maybe I'm a bit biased about the show but I'm willing to believe that most people on this board would go to bat for a show that they believed in too!
Updated On: 2/19/07 at 12:19 AM

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 8:12am

Yes, I agree with Stephanie Block that predicting the future of a show after a preview performance or dress rehearsal is a bit ridiculous, and of course boards like ours are nothing more than various theater fans expressing not always informed opinions.

What I don't agree with is the oft stated notion that there's something inherently mean spirited or hateful about discussing the problems that need to be fixed with a show that's in previews. Isn't the purpose of preview, and especially an out of town tryout, to see what works and doesn't work in a new show and make changes accordingly? My recollection is that several people who post here thought that both professional reviewers and posters to this board were being "inappropriately" harsh towards PQ when it was previewing in Chicago. Yet it seems that the show is going to be significantly better in NY in large part because of the criticism it received in Chicago. (I'm not saying that anyone involved in the show cares what we say here, but they had to have at least glanced at Variety's review.)

Do any of you think Pirate Queen would have been better off if all the reviewers and others who criticized its Chicago run had decided that it was more important to be "nice" and "supportive" than to express their honest opinons?

[Popular]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 11:06am

What is mean spirited and hateful is not necesarilly WHAT is being said, but often HOW it's being said. Of course the show will be better off having gotten feedback on what things didn't work.

I think there is a way of being supportive and critical at the same time. Most people here on the board haven't mastered how to do that tactfully... therefore the "It's gonna bomb", and "OMG it's like the worst thing ever!" becomes mean spirited, hateful, inappropriate, and just plain rude. Especially when there is no substance that follows to back up the statement.

I also think that when it comes to discussing personal habits or details of an actor's life, there is a time and a place and that sometimes it's not really anyones business to say anything at all.
Updated On: 2/19/07 at 11:06 AM

[fachedaluna]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 12:57pm

Good sentiments Popular! I second your comments.

Constructive criticism is one thing...however, being brash and nasty in critiquing is another. This is particularly bad when the person expressing the opinion is only being negative and overly harsh on word of mouth and not first hand knowledge.

[Katecab99]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 1:23pm

i'm just hoping for the best for stephanie block. she's so talented, she deserves a chance to shine.

[Popular]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 1:24pm

fachedaluna - wouldn't it be great if adults were forced to play the telephone game every once in a while? You know, that game where you get in a circle and realize that what you whispered to the person next to you is nowhere close to what gets whispered back you by the time it's made it's way around... I tend to view the board as a bunch of mismatched connections/messages, you just have to pick and choose and figure out who actually knows what they are talking about.

Anyway, almost two weeks to go!! Perhaps people are just itching to say SOMETHING... I'm enjoying the buzz in the meantime. Chicago may have been a blessing in disguise because I think it's making everyone that more excited to see if they were able to pull it off and prove the naysayers wrong.

Updated On: 2/19/07 at 01:24 PM

[FallintoLight]

Posted: 2/19/07 at 2:44pm

Popular - I second your statements. Constructive criticism is good. Criticism for the sake of giving criticism does nothing to better the production. We all love theatre here. Shouldn't we be hoping for the best? And while many on here are hoping for the best there are a select few how are, as popular and fachedaluna said, mean spirited about it. It's just not necessary.