Why do you think Broadway has lost its mainstream cultural appeal?

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:56pm

Back during the early 1900's all the way up to the "Golden Age" of Broadway . . . Broadway was always in the mainstream. During the 1950's many, many, many variety shows were nothing but Broadway related. During the 1920-1950's Broadway songs WERE the top 20 songs on the radio. So, in your opinion, what caused it to fall the side with pop culture?


I think the PBS Special on Broadway pretty much explained it all. During the 1960's when Vietnam was just heating up, Broadway pretty much ignored what was going on in American culture. It pretended that everything was fine and dandy and the general public did not like that. I mean, eventually HAIR came along, but by then it had already sealed it's fate with the main culture. During the "Great Depression," musicals like THE CRADLE WILL ROCK" and others pretty much mirrored what was going on in America, which kept it relevant to the people. But, for some reason, during the mid to late 1960's, it kind of lost sight of that.

So what is your opinion?

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 12:56 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 12:59pm

http://englishplus.com/grammar/00000227.htm

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:00pm

Personally, I think "Broadway: The Golden Age" says it best.

For decades, you could see live theatre for less money that a movie ticket cost. Before that time, Broadway WAS the voice of the people -- the voice of mainstream culture. It stands to reason, then, that songs from Broadway would be mainstream hits. The price of seeing a Broadway show has sky-rocketed way beyond inflation. It's now a niche market.

Why has Broadway lost its mainstream cultural appeal? Because mainstream culture can't afford to see it anymore.

[scooter38432]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:01pm

I also think that Broadway doesn't have what the mainstream audiences want these days...

Violence (of course some shows do contain violence, but not to the mainstream's appeal)

Video Games

Sports

Updated On: 6/21/07 at 01:01 PM

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:02pm

Why has it lost mainstream appeal?

1. All the sh*t they put on stage.
2. Nobody can afford to see said sh*t.
3. Who would want to spend so much money to see sh*t!?

Come up with a good idea like Hair or Avenue Q or Annie Get Your Gun and I'll go see it. Come up with a second rate idea that involves creating a story around the catelogue of Iron Butterly (a show hence-forth titled "In a Gadda Da Vita: A Love Story") and I'll wait until it shows up for 99% off on TKTS.

There's a reason why the second-rate revival of Les Miserables and the carbon-copy revival of A Chorus Line are selling out nightly and The Pirate Queen folded in 4 weeks. Updated On: 6/21/07 at 01:02 PM

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:06pm

Boooooo, Lizzie.

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:11pm

Actually, I have to disagree with your statement.

The problem is that Broadway is TOO mainstreamm in a generalized way nowadays, mainstream in that almost EVERY tourist when they come to NY sees a Broadway show.

Tourists now make up 70% of Broadway audiences, with the other 30% coming from New Yorkers and other audiences from the Tri-State Area and surrounding states. Up until the ealry 80's, it was the other way around (70% NY and surrounding areas, 30% tourists).

Broadway has essentially become a tourist attraction (hence the up in ticket prices, which have essentially risen out of massive production budgets to give the audience that GIGANTIC, MASSIVE, and BIG theme park appeal).

Furthermore, viewership of the Tony Awards also go to show this. Again, up until the early 80's upwards of 20 million people watched the Tony Awards, because back then, audiences truly cared about Broadway and were engrossed in the world of live theatre. Now, because Broadway is just an event you go to with your family and children once or twice a year, who give a **** about the awards?
Updated On: 6/21/07 at 01:11 PM

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:14pm

I think a good experiment would be to lower the prices (At least during the off season). I think you can find cheaper hotel rooms in Manhattan now than the $120 for a ticket.

I think Broadway has officially priced itself out of most peoples wallets.

Now I don't think this is the specific reason Broadway has lost it's appeal. At least in the old days, the shows were promoted and the songs were hits. Anyways, if you lower the prices... people will come. What else is there to do in Time Square?

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:15pm

Tourists now make up 70% of Broadway audiences, with the other 30% coming from New Yorkers and other audiences from the Tri-State Area and surrounding states. Up until the ealry 80's, it was the other way around (70% NY and surrounding areas, 30% tourists).


I understand what you are saying, but before they started doing the campaigns in the 80s to try to get tourists to come to Broadway, it was, as Elaine Stritch put it, "In intensive care . . . big time." I think the tourist trade has brought life back into Broadway. Now, I think it's getting too much with ticket prices and things, but still.

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:18pm

I agree with that as well. When CATS came to Braodway, everything changed. I would say for the most part the change was for the better, as Broadway was on the verge of becoming a lost art form, especially with the denegration of NYC and the Broadway/Times Square area.

But people get mad when the ticket prices go up. Don't blame the producers (for the most part). There is nobody to blame per se, that is just the evolution of the marketplace.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:19pm

I don't understand the problem with it being a tourist attraction. I just wish it was a more reasonable one.


As far as art... uh... well maybe if Off-broadway had a different business model things would have a chance.

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:22pm

The "problem" with Broadway being a tourist attarction is part truth, part stereotype, but the truth outweighs it.

Broadway sadly isn't viewed as "art" anymore by the masses. Broadway has sadly become something more along the lines of The Empire State Building, or the Statue of Liberty, when it should be up there with MoMa, The Met, The Whitney etc. That's how it used to be, but nowadays, Broadway has become the Six Flags of Times Square, and who knows how things will be 20 years from now...

[Fosse76]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:33pm

Movies and television are the main culprit. You are talking about a time where not everyone owned a television set (it was once a niche market) and there weren't any multiplexes, but anyone could afford a ticket to see a stage show. As Broadway tickets increased, and more and more variety of television and film programming came into being, the theatre market began its descent. It's lack of mainstream identity has nothing to do with tourism. There are just more affordable ways to be entertained.

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:42pm

Just FYI, it's not as simple as ONE answer. Your reason is part of it, my reason is part of it, and there are 40 other reasons.

The tourism factor absolutely came about BECAUSE of the television and advancement in media technology.

[kasim]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:42pm

Thesbijean> Your statement makes no sense at all.

IF broadway is now seen 70% by non-new yorkers that should make the popularity if anything go up. It then allows more people from more varietys to go see shows.

Btw it also makes sense with hte amount of shows, prices that mostly tourists would go to it day in day out.

[kasim]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:44pm

Fossee>> good reply ...

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:44pm

I'm not saying Broadway isn't seen by more people than before. It is, and that is a good thing.

I'm saying because it's being seen by more people, by people who don't want to see a show about pointalism or by people who don't speak English, that the QUALITY of the work being done is wholly different than it was 30 years ago.

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 1:46pm

That's also why more shows are running longer than ever, because there is a bigger audience comign in. But that is where it gets tricky, cause there are people who view that the big wide audience is prohibiting new work from being done.

[kasim]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 2:15pm

Thesbijean>>

Ahh ..... that makes more sense. In the end the cost is high .. because cost is often based on what they can charge. And it will keep rising as shows can afford it.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 2:50pm

Isn't anyone else pis$ed that once you could get a Broadway show ticket that was way cheaper than a hotel room? Ticket prices have inflated so much in so little time..

Somebody call Bloomberg!

[PB ENT.]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 3:56pm

1. All the sh*t they put on stage.
2. Nobody can afford to see said sh*t.
3. Who would want to spend so much money to see sh*t!?
There's a reason why the second-rate revival of Les Miserables and the carbon-copy revival of A Chorus Line are selling out nightly and The Pirate Queen folded in 4 weeks. ~ Yankeefan

While I wouldn't put it quite that way,lol!, I have to agree with you. Of the recent Broadway offerings in the past few years, there's only a handful of shows I recommend to my friends especially at these prices and most of them are shows that have been on Broadway for quite some time. With a few exceptions of some more recent works such as Grey Gardens, Jersey Boys, Light in the Piazza, I really won't suggest much.

IMO,There are reasons people like certain type shows and the grosses and longevity of what comes and goes reflects what people want.

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:27pm

Economically, they're selling more tickets for more money than ever before. So I think Broadway is healthy on that front.

But culturally -- and I think this is more where SpiderDJ is coming from -- Broadway hasn't produced a hit song since "One Night in Bangkok" in 1986.

Musically, I think, pop culture has largely left Broadway behind. The sound of music today is two generations past "Jerry Likes My Corn" or "I Am Aldolpho." But that's the sound of Broadway in 2007.

It would be great to see people like Eminem or Timbaland creating beats for Broadway, but the truth is that even a rock sound never quite took hold there -- Hair, Tommy, and Rent notwithstanding. So good luck with something even more modern sounding.

To me, it's like asking whatever happened to swing music, or why don't the kids foxtrot any more? They had their time, and then the times changed. That's not to say that people like Harry Connick Jr. and Josh Groban can't make a living any more. But mainstream culture has gone in a different direction.

[Guillermo Ugarte]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 4:36pm

When I think of mainstream I do not think of the old theatrical audience. In the last century, theater was often reserved for the wealthy, and those who had little disposable income were left out in the cold.

As the 1900s came to a close, there were more middle income people in attendance but it has only been in the past 20 years that the real mainstream New York theater has evolved with Disney, juke box musicals and other shows designed to attract tourists, children and young adults.

Today's theater audience is less discerning, less educated and more easily bored. I would call them mainstream. On those rare occasions when I get to speak to someone who is provoked to thought, intrigued or excited by well written plays or well structured or composed musicals I find myself pleasantly surprised by the intelligent debate and conversation.

[freeadmission]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 5:56pm

The theatre world itself is the culprit. When TV and movies came along, that was Broadway's chance (along with the rest of the theatre world) to put on shows that are truly excellent. No sitcoms, no special effects, just theatre doing what theatre does, providing live entertainment in IT'S OWN FASHION.

But the theatre world felt the need to copy movies and TV and ended up failing miserably. Certain things work on screen better than they do on stage, and visa versa. Those working the in theatre should have the goal of doing excellent theatre in its own right, without trying to compete with television and film where it simply cannot.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 6/21/07 at 6:17pm

Broadway pretends to price itself out of the market, but every produce budgets a certain amount of discounts they know will be offered to the savvy theatre-going public such as myself. If tourists are not aware of TKTS and the multitude of other discounts offered by credit card companies, websites, etc., they usually find out pretty early into their trip. So while the ticket prices I agree are ridiculously high, no producer in his right mind is using the full prices to calculate actual ticket sales projections. I might buy a full price (not "premium", which is nothing more than self-scalping) for one show that I'm afraid would sell out or that I absolutely want decent orchestra seats. The other 6 or 7 shows I see, I buy at TKTS or through some other discount.

That being said, I believe Broadway is no longer mainstream for one simple reason: technology. In just the past 20 years, we have 100s of TV channels, higher profile professional sports, more movies being produced in more theaters across the country, the internet, cell phones with cameras, computer games, home video games, Tivo, etc. With the entertainment industry providing instant gratification in technology growing exponentially at an alarming rate with international access, Broadway does not stand a chance with being mainstream any more. It's biggest competition through the Golden Age was three major television networks and a few major movie studios when the number of movie theatres in any major city could be counted on one hand. Luckily, the international success of a few highly commercial shows that certain people around here like to pooh-pooh help keep Broadway alive. That and national tours are the reason the shows deemed acceptable by the artistically elite even stand a chance at being seen by anyone at all, much less turn a profit. Broadway income is generated primarily by tourists. Figure out how to get the tourists to Broadway, you might be able to figure out how to get them to buy tickets to your show.

Broadway changed because the entire world changed, much like how Broadway changed from the turn of the century to the Golden Age. It's simply a matter of evolution.