Why do you think Broadway has lost its mainstream cultural appeal?- Page 3

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 6:35pm

Reminds me of a line from The Fall of The Roman Empire

Sophia Loren " Mourn for the land that is no more"

The land of affordable tickets & a hint of drama on Broadway

[Craig]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 7:11pm

But.. to play devil's advocate.

Doesn't putting shows on TV and DVD negate what the whole LIVE theater going experience is ABOUT?

If you record/broadcast/make available to the masses right off the bad, you won't ever find an audience

If you record/broadcast/make available after the run is over, you won't gain an audience.

This is the "debate" most producers have when thinking about the timing of tours, making a movie version, etc.

And there are so FEW pro-shot full musicals that exist that I would call a GREAT representation of the show. Some are fun to watch and done decently - but nothing (with current technology) ever be able to recreate the experience of sitting in a theater with an audience around you as you see a not-always-flawless production.

Isn't that why we love going to the theater?

Who knows - maybe one day they'll have holographic technology that will allow people to watch a production digitally where you aren't dictated where to look by a director and a set # of cameras, but rather how one watches a show when in the theater.

Just some random thoughts...

[misschung]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 7:17pm

I totally agree, Craig. I don't think that they should make full productions available when the show opens, but I do think that they need to advertise a little bit more. I'm not really sure how, though.

Of course nothing ever compares to the experience of live theater. But then why is it that so many musicians or performers who release several DVD versions of their concerts are still continually sold out? Is it because their tour schedules are less frequent than the 8 show a week schedule on Broadway?

[Craig]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 7:33pm

Well I think there's a very SMALL market of musicals that could survive a dvd release. I think Wicked would sell out regardless of whether or not there was a DVD.. But that's in the minority

Also, a rock concert (I think for some crazy reason) is easier to capture - but maybe I'm wrong with today's concerts versus when I started going to them and they were more performing vs. spectacle-type concerts.

But yes.. you hit on the important difference too - the "open" schedule allows people to put off seeing the show versus having your favorite artist be in town for one or two nights ONLY. Those will always sell out.

I also think that rock concert attendees are more flexible with "views" - mostly because they have to be given the arena sizes. When you see a Broadway show, you want to be able to see everything as much as possible (hence all the sight line threads, complaints about partial views, etc)

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 7:52pm

"We also just don't have as many good Broadway composers as we once did. That is why we have to "assemble" musicals around selected songs by this or that person or group."

I don't necessarily agree with this. I think the bigger problem isn't that there aren't as many good composers, but that there aren't as many good composers given a chance as they were in the old days. There were so many more theaters, and producers weren't scared that things had to be a name to sell, so composers were able to mount shows, learn from them, then mount more. I'm also convinced that there are briliant composers out there that can't get their show produced. I think that's the larger problem.

[trinaaron]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 10:34pm

We live in a time where instant gratification is the absolute norm. Movies are released in the multiplexes, six months later they are on DVD. You can get songs on the internet within seconds of deciding you want them. If at home, most people have their TV on, and with TIVO now it is that much easier. For most people going to the theater requires planning, waiting, and most of all...CASH. Theater has become an event that is looked forward to instead of a part of everyday life. This is especially true if you live outside of a major metropolitan area.

Having said that, I think Broadway in itself is very much just as "mainstream" as anything out there. Just like every other form of entertainment, there are some overproduced mindless shows that are hugely popular, several thoughtful pieces that somehow find an audience, a few shows that critics love, but no one sees, and a whole bunch of crap. Is the audience smaller? Of course it is. You have to physically be in New York to see anything on Broadway. However, even people who have never been out of their home state have heard of shows like Phantom of the Opera and Wicked.

[Gelfling]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 7:23am

I think it's people as a rule are getting dumber. No seriously...

They read less, watch more and more TV, can't be bothered to listen to anything that makes them think for more than 10 minutes without losing focus or getting a headache.

Their attention span has been reduced to nothing... we live in an MTV/McDonalds world where people behave more and more like consumers of "culture" and less and less like an audience. As weird as it may sound, they don't want to be surprised anymore. They want to be sure of what they'll experience the minute they walk into a theatre... hence the unending sequels and remakes.

Shows like Wicked or The Lion King are successful independantly of their quality. People just know what they're in for when they walk in the door. They don't think they can be disappointed. They listen to mainstream radio because they know what the latest song is going to sound like before they hear it and that's a good thing for them.

Also I think the era of special effects and action make even the biggest shows on Broadway look trite. People really can't manage to suspend their disbelief for 2 hours now.

And finally, a theatre isn't big enough to accomodate large crowds which makes fads harder to create (well, maybe the Shubert is). And if the whole world doesn't know about it, why else would you want to go... Do you really think Harry Potter books became so successful because they are the best books ever written? I don't think so.

[musicalkid]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 7:51am

PBS' Broadway:the american musical also notes that when rock music started in the 60's, and young people liberated themselves from the 50's family-cell, (and became the new COOL), Broadway was pretty much reserved and ignored rock and rebellion, in favor of traditional music and stories.
this alianated the young people, soon to become adult Americans and entertainment-consumers.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 8:51am

>> Doesn't putting shows on TV and DVD negate what the whole LIVE theater going experience is ABOUT?

One could say the same about movies on DVD negating the whole going-to-the-movies experience, but it hasnt.

Again, this whole theory has not stopped the Met opera from having a very successful (and lucrative) series of DVDs of its productions, not to mention an equally successful series of broadcasts in (shock!) movie houses.

Sorry, I dont buy the argument, Craig. Unless one can afford to make the trip to NY, this is about the only way s/he gets to see anything akin to an original Broadway production. For most of them, it's good enough.

[Wicked63]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 9:04am

rename it 'DisneyWay"

[Craig]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 9:29am

Movies were never meant to see live. It's not the same at all.

And I would bet statistically that putting movies on dvd has affected the number of people seeing them in theaters. # of people - not revenue per se.

Also, operas do not have dancing. And I believe there aren't THAT many ballet dvds. Some, but it's not a huge market.

The cost in putting a show on dvd is astronomical. If producers can't even make their money back on CD's - what makes you think they can afford to put shows on DVD? The cost difference is HUGE.

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 9:46am

I agree with Sean. I don't get to NY easily, and when I do, I can only see one or two shows. It would be nice if there was a DVD of Cherry Jones' performance in Doubt, or Victoria Clark's performance in The Light in the Piazza. If these were on DVD, I could experience these great performances and shows or, I could re-experience something I had the luck to see. No, it isn't live, but if that's the best I can get, I'll take it.

Posted: 6/25/07 at 9:51am

As much as we all complain about high ticket prices, someone must be buying them. And I think that as CDs and DVDs fall victim to the pennies-per-click phenomenon of the Internet, people will come to value live performances more, and recorded media less.

At the Tony awards -- before the TV broadcast began -- Duncan Sheik thanked the Broadway community for welcoming him. Now I don't want to say that he or SA is the future of Broadway. But just imagine if more people like him begin to see live Broadway as a viable alternative to the diminishing returns of recorded Hollywood, and begin to create for the stage instead of for the studio.

[auggie]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 9:54am

There has been a lot of talk about other entertainment forms taking business away and one aspect that Broadway is very lacking in compared to say sports or cinema is venue comfort. I understand a lot of these places are historic landmarks and I would not want to change the ambiance but almost all Broadway theaters are just plain uncomfortable to the paying customer. How about a refurb in the seating area so that people can actually sit in comfort and have decent sight lines? How about a lounge area where there isn't a huge line for the ladies restroom? Look at a pro sports stadium/arena or even a movie house, these places have evolved and are very friendly to the paying customer.

I too think DVDs and streaming vids of Broadway shows would help a lot. People want a little sample of what they are going to be seeing for their $s these days and this kind of promotion is what is selling concert tix in the a very tough music business.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 12:26pm

>> Also, operas do not have dancing. And I believe there aren't THAT many ballet dvds. Some, but it's not a huge market

But opera is still a live performance put in a recorded medium. Sorry, bud, your theory just went ker-splat. The fact that there's no dancing is irrelevant.

Insofar as movies, it's the whole "communal experience" thing that makes going to the movies *very* different from seeing it in the silence of your home. Anyone who's seen a movie on the Big Screen and then on their little 29" TV knows that difference very well.

[Paulyd]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 2:47pm

At the end of the day it all boils down to money.

Before a DVD company would even consider chasing a propsition of releasing a musical or play on DVD show on DVD there are so many factors to consider. They'd start by producing a profit and loss report on a title just to see if it's worth releasing.

THE RIGHTS - These in themselves could cost a company a fortune. Usually the rights holders would expect a cut from the sale of each DVD.

MASTERING - Depending on how the show is filmed for DVD, this can cost a fortune. Of course the reason that many of the older filmed versions of shows look and sound awful is that they werent filmed with DVD in mind. Pippin and most of the Sondheim titles spring to mind.

MARKETING - Doesent cheap if you want a decent campaign

WEEK ONE SALES - What most companies judge sales by. Here in the UK your title can live or die by this, much in the same way that a movie does in its first weekend of release.

The only recent show that i can think of that would sell in the numbers that would be respectable would be Wicked, but i dont reckon DVD rights will be available anytime soon. The show is making a fortune, so why would producer even consider it.

Producing and releasing a DVD of a new Broadway production simply isnt cost effective. After you've paid everyone off, there is very little for profit.

[peanut2]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 3:04pm

very insightful

[MarkRascati]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 3:34pm

Craig, your prediction about holographic actors may not be as far away as you think.

http://www.uga.edu/columns/000417/preview.html

[Hogarth]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 3:49pm

I think what Gelfling wrote is very true. People are spending SO MUCH money on a ticket now, they don't want to be surprised. They want to know exactly what they are going to get for their money.

A revival is like visiting an old friend. A musical based on a popular movie brings a LOT of that movie's goodwill to the theatre with it.

And I don't think it's because there are not GOOD new composers out there, I think it's that they are not being produced.

When it comes down to the bottom line, the problem is the bottom line.

Updated On: 6/25/07 at 03:49 PM

[Timmer]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 4:30pm

I mean how many of us grew up watching The Wizard of Oz on TV every year? That was my first exposure to musical theater, you know?

Not to mention the annual telecast of "Peter Pan."

[Timmer]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 4:34pm

I do think that they need to advertise a little bit more. I'm not really sure how, though.

[Timmer]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 4:44pm

almost all Broadway theaters are just plain uncomfortable to the paying customer. How about a refurb in the seating area so that people can actually sit in comfort and have decent sight lines?

That is a good idea, but remember that they have to keep a minimum of 500 seats in the house or they're no longer Broadway theatres. So that would have to be taken into account when doing something like this.

[Craig]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 4:50pm

"But opera is still a live performance put in a recorded medium. Sorry, bud, your theory just went ker-splat. The fact that there's no dancing is irrelevant. "

No.. it doesn't. It's far easier to translate (visually) an opera than it is a musical.

[Thesbijean]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 4:55pm

Exactly. Seeing an opera on video/dvd is more of a sell because operas play in much larger houses than Broadway shows, and the movement in operas is much more isolated and focused compared to Broadway shows.

Operas are also a rooted tradition that's engrained in almost every culture, a tradition that goes back hundreds and hundreds of years.

[Timmer]

Posted: 6/25/07 at 5:00pm

I do think that they need to advertise a little bit more. I'm not really sure how, though.

Well, buy ads in the movie reels. Be on TV and not just in New York. Make a couple of songs into music videos. Banner ads and videos on the Internet. These are a few ways.