Negotiations have broken down!!- Page 2

[billynj]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:37am

I thought you might see them humor in that one ..

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:39am

Well, then maybe you aren't all so baaaaaad.

[BwayInsider]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:41am

JustaGuy-not sure if you heard but at these meetings the two sides were sitting down with 'spreadsheets open' as reported in NY1. So I believe they were both saying here's what its going to cost us both to make these changes. to your point about subsidiary rights, concessions etc, what does that have to do with how much a stage hand gets paid for his job, or how many stage hands should be hired to do any one particular job (the main points of contention in the negotiations)? You are mixing the wrong ingredients into your argument. Furthermore, why should stage hands or any other worker who is not a box office draw benefit more when a show or shows is profitable. By that argument, they should also suffer pay cuts when shows are losing money.

[jaystarr]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:45am

I wonder what's billynj going to do after the strike is over? he wont have anything to post anymore !


BE VERSATILE, honey ! you can be a fANADu or a Du Crew !- we definitely need someone to keep the publicity going on all the time & bumps our threads!

J*



Updated On: 11/27/07 at 08:45 AM

[Lynnespock2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:47am

Worse yet, I hear stagehands run with scissors!

Let's hope they meet again tonight!

[MenzelManiac]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:48am

I've been following all the strike threads and been keeping up with the back and forth between everyone, so I also felt like I should introduce myself. Ignore the name (MenzelManiac, lol), it's from a long time ago. Anyway, just felt the need to say hello so that we can all grieve together.

I'm Anthony.

And now I'm depressed. Thanks League. Thanks Local One.

[bardolator]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:53am

As for what Local One are demanding--I got the impression that one could just look at their most recent contract; they've said repeatedly that they are not asking for anything additional. Agree or disagree, I don't think you can be much more transparent than that.

[localonecrew]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 8:57am

"you lose the right to secret negations when your job actions affect so many other peoples right to make a living ...can you understand that idea ... is that idea so outrageous?? "

we local one members and members of the other unions know what we are asking for. we just dont feel the need to negotiate in the papers.
those of us involved know exactly what is being negotiated.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:04am

"JustaGuy-not sure if you heard but at these meetings the two sides were sitting down with 'spreadsheets open' as reported in NY1. So I believe they were both saying here's what its going to cost us both to make these changes. to your point about subsidiary rights, concessions etc, what does that have to do with how much a stage hand gets paid for his job, or how many stage hands should be hired to do any one particular job (the main points of contention in the negotiations)? You are mixing the wrong ingredients into your argument. Furthermore, why should stage hands or any other worker who is not a box office draw benefit more when a show or shows is profitable. By that argument, they should also suffer pay cuts when shows are losing money."

BillyNJ was speaking of transparency in the negotiations, wanting the Union to reveal publicly what they were asking for without, asking the same of the League.

Having open spreadsheets in a private negotiation, is not the same as having open spreadsheets that are available to the public. I was pointing out what is good for the goose is good for the gander. He wants the Union to put everything out to the public with out asking for the League to do the same. The League has intimated that it's the Unions that are eating away at the profits, as if they were the only cause for unprofitable production and if the Unions would just lower their pay-scales all would be right with the world. When in fact Union salaries and benefits are only a small, percentage of the total costs of mounting and running a production.

I did not mention anything about profit sharing. So you're trying to add a few ingredients of your own.

[StageFan2]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:04am

Yeah LynnSpock and they go swimming less than two hours after eating. Basta*ds!

They'll be back talking soon. Not to be understanding or sympathic to either side, but it must be terribly exhausting to defend your position, crunch numbers, and/or argue for 12 or 14 hours. I've been in these labor vs. management negotiations. It gets very intense and can border on hostile. Good grief, just look at the way you all go at each other. Can you imagine what it must be like in 'the room'? As bad as we want this done, I'm sure they do as well. They need and deserve the break. Hard as it is, being patient and letting the system run its course, is the answer.
Updated On: 11/27/07 at 09:04 AM

[BwayInsider]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:05am

bardolator-I think the problem between what they are asking for and what they are being offered is that they are not recognizing the changing face of business today. Unfortunately, ever since 9/11, the way business is done is changing. Local 1 must become flexible with the times. The entire industry has to change to be able to survive and get people to come to the theater instead of staying home and watching readily available entertainment on TV or over the internet. Change and growth are painful, but to survive it is necessary.

[BwayInsider]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:08am

"Having open spreadsheets in a private negotiation, is not the same as having open spreadsheets that are available to the public. I was pointing out what is good for the goose is good for the gander. He wants the Union to put everything out to the public with out asking for the League to do the same. The League has intimated that it's the Unions that are eating away at the profits, as if they were the only cause for unprofitable production and if the Unions would just lower their pay-scales all would be right with the world. When in fact Union salaries and benefits are only a small, percentage of the total costs of mounting and running a production. "

What private business in the world opens its books to the public? That is absurd and simple ignorance (don't mean to be nasty).

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:09am

Did you really just reference 9/11?

I'm sorry--did I just step into a GOP Debate by accident?

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:10am

So, it's ignorant to want the League to open their spreadsheets, but alright to demand that the Union publicly disclose all their demands. Double standard much?

[BwayInsider]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:10am

JRB- yes I did. It's reality that the world and this industry is changing because of that occurrence.

[BwayInsider]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:12am

Double standard? Have you read the League's statements where they outline the concessions they have made in their offer?

http://www.livebroadway.com/

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:16am

Oh come now, 9/11 has changed the business model for producing theatre? Isn't that a bit of a stretch? Are you saying that people are no longer willing to come to the theatre because of 9/11, when over the past couple of years attendance on B'way has risen? I'm not following your logic at all. Yes, their are other entertainment opportunities, but to link those to 9/11 is an incredible jump.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:16am

That is such BS. Especially when the box office nearly hit a billion last year.

I'm not saying that theatre shouldn't evolve with technology and trends. I think most of Broadway, including Local 1, will agree with changes.

But to reference 9/11?? I'm sorry, but actions speak louder than words and if we have learned anything from the past 6 years from Bush actions--INACTIONS--things haven't truly changed as much as Bush & Co. would like to make us think. Otherwise, our ports and borders would be more secure. Otherwise, we would have had a definitive emergency plan that would have been used in a catastrophe such as Katrina.

And if things truly haven't changed for ports and borders and disasters, why in the world would I believe that things have changed for THEATRE? People are still seeing shows. More than ever apparently.

Updated On: 11/27/07 at 09:16 AM

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:18am

"Double standard? Have you read the League's statements where they outline the concessions they have made in their offer?"


And just because the Union doesn't offer a press release, every time they've made a concession, doesn't mean that concessions have not been made.

[rosscoe(au)]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:23am

Billynj, can always join the Brooks Bashers, that would give him something new to post about.

Well heres to another week!

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:40am

Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!! Dammit!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bardolator]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:44am

BwayInsider--I wasn't defending the requests of either side, just pointing out that there's no need for Local One to disclose its demands in order for their side of the negotiations to be transparent to the public, since they're apparently asking to maintain the status quo. If we want to see their demands, we just need a copy of the old contract.

Hope that clarifies my post--

(spelling edit) Updated On: 11/27/07 at 09:44 AM

[Josh Freilich]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:46am

ALRIGHT, THAT'S IT!!!!
I HAVE LOST ALL HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't care what anyone else says if there are talks scheduled, because the next time someone says there are, I will not believe it. Not one word. Now there is no more hope for the end of the strike. It will inevitably last through December and BEYOND THAT, maybe even forever. I knew this thing was hopeless from the beginning. Nothing has worked. Nothing will work, so let's just leave this behind and move on.

[bardolator]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:47am

Welcome back, Chicken Little!

(Deep breaths, man. Be sure to breathe back out.)

[theater_nut]

Posted: 11/27/07 at 9:48am

Hey BwayInsider - You say things like "9-11" but have no comment as to what that has to do with anything. Your comments regarding the "business changing" and "private business" make you seem thrilled at the thought of contentious negotiations, and your posts seem to admit your own giddiness at the strike.

This strike is hurting everybody, and at this point I would think before trying to analyze or take sides. The fact is that we have NO IDEA what is going on in there anymore. Both sides are ego-driven and trying to drive the point home, especially if mopping is still an issue.
This is behind closed doors, and the fact is that it has become more complicated than any of us here can comprehend.
Bringing up 9-11 just makes absolutely no sense and has nothing to do with anything. Do you have post-traumatic stress disorder? I do - but at this point it's not from 9-11!



Updated On: 11/27/07 at 09:48 AM