Follies vs.. Two Gentleman of Verona

[Alexis2]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 12:22am

Best Musical: Follies Vs. Two Gentleman of Verona
Verona Won!.......However it's FOLLIES that's a classic
Best Musical: West Side Story VS. The Music Man
Music man Won!.......However it's WEST SIDE STORY that's a classic

This Year: Best Musical Revival
West Side Story VS. Hair......and the winner will be ??

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 1:14am

You are a little unfair to MUSIC MAN. It was a bigger box office hit, and has been a staple in regional and community theatres for over 50 years. If you are talking innovation thescore of MUSIC MAN is pretty innovative: Rock Island (probaby the first "rap" number on Broadway LOL!), Preston's patter numbers, the Piano lesson segueing to Goodnight My Someone then the next song is the same tune done as a march: 76 Trombones. And the Barbershop Quartet...no one had ever used a Barbershop quaretet so effectively on stage before.

WEST SIDE STORY had a more electric modern score but MUSIC MAN probably deserved the awards it won.

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 1:18am

Agreed that the OP is selling The Music Man a bit short. I know many, many people who greatly prefer it to West Side Story. To imply that it is not a classic is just plain foolish.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 1:41am

It's not foolish but so many people assume MUSIC MAN is cheap fluff and did not deserve the Tony Award in 1958, but if you look at it it was deserving.

[A Director]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 2:08am

The Music Man is a wonderful show. One way to look at it, it's about how art transforms a community.

[dramamama611]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 5:44am

MM is a delight through and through. AND a classic. It was revived not all that long ago: and it ran for a year and a half...but I'm not sure if it re-couped.


I'm not really sure what the POINT of the OP is. Considering that BOTH WSS and Hair are classics.

If Hair does not win, the Tony Awards will have lost any credibility they have (in my eyes, anyway).

[best12bars]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 9:19am

Music Man was a huge hit, both commercially and artistically, when it first opened on Broadway.

To imply anything less only shows your ignorance.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 9:42am

And is FOLLIES really considered a "classic," in the vein of GUYS AND DOLLS, HAIR, WEST SIDE STORY, MUSIC MAN, etc?

Arguably, TWO GENTLEMEN is a lost gem; a very 70s period show with a strong book and score. But unlike HAIR, has no real relevance today, though they valiantly tried in the (wonderful) SITP production a few years ago.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 10:21am

Follies is known for its innovation, lavish sets and costumes, classic score, and the whopping original cast. It is something of an academic classic, celebrated among those who are theatre savvy rather than known to the general public, with the exception of a few songs (not the the general public would know what they were from). Unfortunately, the show never found real success in fully staged production (it's the book, if you ask me) and no one has really agreed on how it can be fixed.

Two Gentlemen of Verona was fluffy entertaining piece that was cleverly constructed and ingeniously staged for one purpose: to delight and enchant the audience. It succeeded and won the top prize while Follies won the Tonys it deserved, in my opinion. The biggest distraction in its writing are the clunky lyrics, but I think it is one of the most underrated musicals out there. I saw the production at the Delacorte and while it needed some comedic tightening and the choreography could have been beefed up a bit, I instantly saw how it won Best Musical and the dated style of the piece actually worked in its favor. I don't know why it didn't get a Broadway transfer (Norm Lewis and Renee Elyse Goldsberry would have been major Tony contenders). Even with its faults, it still remains one of my favorite shows I've seen in New York ("Bring All the Boys Back Home" was entirely relevant in the Park and the audience cheered it wildly) and if I had to choose Follies or Two Gentlemen to see again, I'd have to pick the latter.

The Music Man is a classic and actually one of the most perfect musicals ever written.

West Side Story vs Hair? Well, it has nothing to do with the shows themselves so much as the staging and performances, since they are revivals. I get that you're trying to do something of a six degrees thing here, but it doesn't really work. Hair is quite different from Two Gents, much like Passion is quite different from Forum. And comparing revivals to original productions isn't quite the same either. Both West Side Story and Hair lost the Best Musical Tony their respective years to The Music Man and 1776. I think it is a little more interesting to see how they will duke it out the same year for Best Revival, though I'm 90% sure Hair will win.

[JBSinger]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 10:28am

It is entirely possible to have two classic shows in one season. Music Man is a solid, well crafted, beautiful show. West Side Story was successful but it didn't become a "classic" until the movie version. It was probably too forward thinking for its time around award season. But isn't it exciting to think of that variety on Broadway back then.

RE Follies vs. Two Gents. Follies has its problems, in spite of a now-mythic production and fabulous score. It has been built up over the years and even now, I still don't understand how Two Gents (basically forgotten) overtook this in the Awards season. History has judged it better than the Tonys (as is true of many of the award winners/losers).

PS - I think HAIR will win over WSS this year in the Revival category. WSS has the box-office, but HAIR has the love.
Updated On: 4/3/09 at 10:28 AM

[madbrian]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 10:30am

I was listening to Seth Rudetsky on Sirius XM a couple of weeks ago, and he weighed in on WSS vs MM by playing the Tonight Quintet followed by Shipoopi.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 10:38am

All I know about TWO GENTS - I still get chills thinking (and listening to the...ummm... from Central Park) about the cheers that went up during "Bring All the Boys Back Home." What magic.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 11:20am

Think of "Two Gentlemen" more like In the Heights. It was infectious and easy-to-like. "Bring All the Boys Back Home" was thrilling because it was a musical expressing a political statement. "I'm Very Happy for My Best Friend" was a wonderful comic number. The whole musical was like a party or a carnival.

Follies, with which I was obsessed as a 15-year-old in 1971, was difficult for people to like. Each of the 5 times I brought people to see it, they reacted negatively: teenage friends, older family members--no one shared my obsession.

[Jon]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 11:48am

Meanwhile, the biggest hit of that infmous season was GREASE - yet no one complains about it not winning the Tony!

[ljay889]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 11:53am

Follies is life-changing. Period.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 12:04pm

Honestly, I'd give anything to watch Two Gentlemen again just as I saw it in the park. I was vaguely familiar with the story, having read the Shakespeare play years before, and I had a bit of fondness for the score, but no idea how it all actually worked together. This show more than any other completely surpassed my expectations. The score is littered with sparkling gems that I had once thought were cute, but when viewed in context, just blew me away. Songs such as Night Letter, which sounds on CD (or LP, as I first heard it) like a comical birth of an idea from a couple of desperate bubbleheads, but on stage becomes a explosion of sexual tension mimicking passionate intercourse without the pair every actually touching each other. Or the show-stopping Love Me, where a funky plea for release from the bonds of expectations and unrequited love becomes a hilarious, touching and splendidly joyous celebration of freedom. Just the mere thought of Goldsberry's passionate "Higher! Higher!" mixed with the jubilant chorus's "Let it Go! Let it Go!" and that ridiculous mechanical dove flapping over the heads of the audience is enough to engulf me in nostalgic goosebumps. Even the puzzling kooky lyrics of Thurio's Samba (Sondheim fans' favorite target when discussing the show) suddenly rang true with hysterical clarity in a way that has to be seen to be understood. And for anyone who believes the score to be too light and not pack enough punch, I point to Love's Revenge and its reprise, which brings down the house, or the witty and concise, yet anthemic Symphony.

I never truly expected it to happen, but as passionate as Sondheim fans are about Follies, I ended up being almost as passionate about Two Gentlemen of Verona. I think the only thing that stops me from being as obsessive as the Follies fans is the mere fact that there is simply very little material written about the sole Galt McDermott Best Musical winner, which is a real shame.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 12:13pm

Meanwhile, the biggest hit of that infmous season was GREASE - yet no one complains about it not winning the Tony!

With good reason. GREASE can be fun (if it is done well - which it rarely is) but it is not an award worthy show. It's nominations (Best Musical and Best revivals) was mainly ti fill out teh 4th slot on the category.

Funny trivia about the 1972 Tony awards telecast: They did not present songs from the 4 nominated shows that year. GREASE, FOLLIES and TWO GENTLEMEN were not represented. The 4th Best Musical nominee was AIN'T SUPPOSED TOM DIE A NATURAL DEATH and they offered an extended (and bewildering) sequence from that show.

Although it was not nominated as Best Musical, they did show the Temple scene, Everything's All Right and I Don't Know How to Love Him from JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR. (To be fair, the album had been a chart-topper so perhaps they were courting a younger audience.)

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 12:19pm

Ugh! Don't remind me. I think both Two Gents and Follies fans can agree that the 1972 Tony telecast was a travesty.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 1:05pm

I was a big TWO GENTLEMEN hater for a long time (the OBC didn't help) until I saw the production in Central Park a couple of years. It's a fun, smart feel-good show. No FOLLIES, but still very much worthwhile.

[philcrosby]

Posted: 4/3/09 at 2:08pm

I saw the original production of TWO GENTS when it moved to Broadway ... it was two hours of sheer fun and joy, with a "contemporary sounding" score, a fun and funny staging and marvelous cast. It was multi-cultural. Everyone came out smiling and dancing. How can you resist a finale with frisbees, yo-yo's and giant bubbles?

The buzz at the time though was, despite terrific performances and a wonderful score, FOLLIES was depressing and a downer. I don't buy that, though it is a difficult show to do, with characters it is difficult to root for.

I think the Tonys were awarded correctly at that time. West Side was no where near the hit that Music Man was ... West Side became a classic when the movie was released.