ABC Wash Post Poll: 64% of Dems Think Hillary Should Stay in Race- Page 4

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:42pm

Updated On: 5/13/08 at 02:42 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:44pm

She was quoting an AP article. And its been taken out of context.

Yes, I do find Bill's South Carolina comment troubling. But, I also know the Clintons' record on Civil Rights is excellent.

But both camps have absolutely talked about demographics--race, gender, class, etc. But apparently when the Clinton side does it, it's racist.

[Luscious]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:46pm

"How the hell do you know what I do or do not believe in? Electing a president isn't so mickey mouse as you think it is. The war is ONE of many issues. Intelligent people find out where a candidate stands on ALL the issues before making a decision."

Once again you're twisting my words and not answering the questions. I didn't bring up ONE issue, I mentioned THREE (3); the war, a woman's right to choose, and universal health care. All major issues. And there are many other areas where McCain's views are in direct opposition to Clinton and Obama's. You ask... "How the hell do you know what I do or do not believe in? I'm basing my assumptions on your support of Hillary and what SHE believes in. If that's not how and why you vote for a candidate, please tell us what criterion you use.

"...I don't necessarily agree with Luscious's assertion."

"But so many of you here have twisted what he/she has said that I'm shocked. Luscious did not say that if you vote for Clinton over Obama you're a racist. He/She said that if you supported Clinton over Obama and will now turn your allegience to McCain, you're a racist."

"Now...I don't agree with that generalization. But I would like to hear from some the rationale behind it. I mean...do you really want to spite your face that much?"

Thank you for getting it, robbiej. I suspect tazber really isn't as dumb as he comes off; he just doesn't WANT to get it. The way I see it is, if you're a Hillary supporter but would vote for McCain over Obama, should Obama get the Democratic nomination, then you're either a racist or you don't vote based on the issues. WHICH IS IT? Or, if there is any other rationale, by all means, let's hear it.

AGAIN...
If you're against the war continuing indefinitely, how could you vote for McCain? If you’re in favor of a woman's right to choose, how could you vote for McCain? If you’re for universal health care, how could you vote for McCain?

Updated On: 5/13/08 at 02:46 PM

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:46pm

It was coded language. There's no denying that. I'm sorry for the "dumb", Jerby, but at this point I think it's time to take off the colored glasses and stop playing the games of "Well, IF she wins this, and we add this, and subtract this, and divide by this..."

We've got to be ready to move on. I don't see the convincing argument for Hillary being awarded the nomination that doesn't seriously hurt the Democratic party, especially when Obama has it almost wrapped up by the book.

Taz, McCain is no longer a liberal republican. He's Bush's lapdog. That's why he's going to lose in November.

I think John Oliver did a great skit about the kind of racism Obama has faced.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=167643&title=oliver-ticket-to-the-pollies

Updated On: 5/13/08 at 02:46 PM

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:49pm

Saying more 'white Americans' vote for her is true.

Making 'hard-working' synonymous with 'white Americans' is false. Completely and utterly false. Living in New York, we both know it to be false.

Now...could it have been a slip of the tongue? Sure. But Obama had to explain again and again his 'context', which still wasn't good for a lot of people. Why shouldn't she?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:51pm

And I maintain that the more we talk about Democratic racism, the more we hand the election to McCain. It's a conversation best left to academia not to the dwindling days of the campaign season.

Because the racism that the Republican 527s will employ in September and October will not be the inadvertent racism of the Clintons and Ferraro, it will be purposeful, targeted, deliberate and devastating.

If Obama does not connect with the white working class before the 527 commericals begin, we will lose.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:52pm

But you are assuming that she is implying that white people work harder than black people or latino people. That's not what I hear at all. At all.

She is simply qualifying the voters she is talking about--not disqualifying others.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:54pm

But you are assuming that she is implying that white people work harder than black

That's what I hear every time an Obama supporter calls Hillary ambitious or calculating.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:56pm

I completely agree, Phyllis. Hateful, woman-hating comments. Spoken by supporters. Not the candidate.

Do I believe she's racist?? Good lord, no! But I think she might be playing to people who ARE racist? Maybe. And that's what I find upsetting.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:57pm

"Why shouldn't she?"

Because it's a self-defeating question.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 2:58pm

"But I think she might be playing to people who ARE racist? Maybe. And that's what I find upsetting."

You're just making up that narrative to upset yourself.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:00pm

Ok. Then let me say that if I felt she was race baiting, I would not be defending her. That would make me just as angry as I was with the Bush/Rove gay baiting in 04.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:00pm

Well...that's just plain untrue.

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:02pm

Phyllis, she IS ambitious and calculating. And Obama likes to play basketball. John McCain is old. People will be racist/misogynist/ageist/etc... but you know what? If Hillary got derailed every time someone said something misogynistic about her, she wouldn't be where she is. She's got thick skin and that's why she's a trail blazer for women everywhere.

PalJoey, that's what I'm saying... the time is now, not later, and that's why it's time for Clinton to drop out. For her of all people to be making this argument, to even be mentioning these words the way she is in the wake of Jeremiah Wright, it's inexcusable. We have to be above racism. It has to be a moot point. We need to get people on board with that now.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:04pm

Phyllis, she IS ambitious and calculating.

As are they all! But it's only pointed out when it's HER!

"But I think she might be playing to people who ARE racist? Maybe. And that's what I find upsetting."

This might be a good time to examine why it took Obama so long to denounce Wright.

[Luscious]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:04pm

"If Obama does not connect with the white working class before the 527 commericals begin, we will lose."

And that's why, as "true Democrats" we should be letting go of the "pie in the sky" fantasy that Hillary will somehow pull off the Democratic nomination and, instead, start throwing all of our support behind Obama... NOW! We don't have one minute to waste if we're going to make this happen in November!

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:04pm

Sorry, jrb...my last post wasn't directed at you, I hope you know.

I can understand people having a different view of what she said. But to insinuate that I made it up just to get my knickers in a twist...when LOTS of other people have said it...is just a titch disingenuous.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:04pm

We have 6 more races. The last one is June 3. Everyone should vote. Let it run its course.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:07pm

it's time for Clinton to drop out

But Ronin 64% of Democrats say it's NOT time for her to drop out. Ask yourself why.

What it IS time for is THIS: It's time for Obama supporters to stop demonizing Hillary.

It's become an addiction for Obama supporters, the same way it was an addiction for the Rush Limbaughs and the Ann Coulters in the 90s.

It's too easy to demonize, too facile--and it comes with a curse: The more you demonize the Clintons, the more it consumes you, it takes you over, until there's nothing left of what you used to believe in. All that's left is Clinton Hatred.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:08pm

I agree, jrb. Not a problem for me. Especially with what's going on over on the Right!

And I actually am not sure what Reverend Wright has to do with her comments.

[tazber]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:08pm

Well said PJ.

[madbrian]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:09pm

I am willing to give her a pass on this. She may be many things, but racist is not one of them. I think she simply chose her words poorly, and her statement could be construed to have racial overtones.

An ABC poll shows how Clinton and Obama poll vs McCain:

"But primaries only tell us so much about general elections. In our latest ABC/Post poll, testing each of the Democrats against John McCain, there’s a shortfall among less-educated whites for both: McCain leads Obama by 12 points in this group, Clinton by 8.

Obama, with his upscale appeal, does better among better-educated whites: McCain’s just +3 vs. Obama, compared with McCain’s 12-point advantage against Clinton among college-educated whites. That accounts for Obama’s better showing against McCain overall, 51-44 percent in our poll, vs. 49-46 percent in a Clinton-McCain matchup."

Obama McCain Clinton McCain Whites, no college 40% 52 44% 52 Whites, college grads 47 50 42 54

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:09pm

No, no, robbie, I knew.

And I fully acknowledge the suspect in that line of discussion, which is why I hope she is careful to be clear what she is saying--that she wins the Reagan Democrats, not anything meant to be racist or race baiting.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:10pm

I'm so looking forward to a time when all the Reagan Democrats are dead.

There. I said it. It was irrational and mean. And I have no problem with it.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/13/08 at 3:11pm

Robbie--I'm saying the entire Obama wing of the Democratic party--aided by the Obama-leaning media--made up all that outrage over the "racism" of the Clintons, simply to stir up anti-Clinton hysteria.

And you know what? It worked.

But now all those people have to let go of their Clinton Hatred--and it's hard. It's like giving up crack or crystal. It feels so GOOOOOOD to hate the Clintons. Once you start, you want to do it more and more and more. You can't stop. You don't WANT to!

Next thing you know, you've lost the election.