Abortion. Your thoughts?- Page 4

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:01pm

My thoughts? The U.S. Constitution affords certain rights of privacy, among these are a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion without the state interfering. There are some limitations that may be constitutional, but these are limited.

On a personal level, I have known many women who have had abortions and have been involved in part of the decision process. I have also counseled men who have been involved. The question of abortion is not a poster or a billboard. It is a very difficult and personal issue that causes great pain - emotionally and physically.

I respect those that have firm beliefs on both sides. I do not however, respect the use of violence or intimidation by those against abortion. This should not be a political issue but a moral and social question.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:02pm

Is it fair that the children be forced to live as a consequence as a result of a mistake?

People are not infallible. If there is an opportunity to rectify a mistake, it needs to be available.

And, frankly, individuals who are not responsible enough or forethinking enough to use some protection are probably the very last people who should be having children.

Updated On: 9/4/06 at 11:02 PM

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:02pm

Condoms break and 1 in 100 is defective. The pill doesn't always work, especially if you are on any antibiotics. Diaphragms can slip. The rhythm method is just silly. I have a cousin that I wanted my aunt to name Depo Provera, since she got her shot about a month before he was conceived. Teenagers can lack judgement. Socioeconomic situations, age and fear of parents, and location can prohibit birth control from being readily available. There are dozens of reasons that unwanted pregnancies occur.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:04pm

"Is it fair that the children be forced to live as a consequence as a result of a mistake?"

How many people do you know whose parents "had" to get married? In my generation, MANY. There are plenty of people who don't even know that they were unplanned (and lots who do), but were born and raised and live productive lives.

I'm not arguing for or against, but I think we'd all be surprised at those numbers if there were a way of tracking them.

Updated On: 9/4/06 at 11:04 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:06pm

"s it that ridiculous to say the woman should take responsibility for her own actions? "

Oh, so if a woman has solid reasons against being a parent, and she makes a mistake, then she must have a baby? It's not all black and white.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:09pm

If you're going to kill someone... kill the mothers! Oh, I know what you're going to say. "If you kill the mother, the fetus dies too." But, the fetus is going to be aborted anyway, so why not let it go down with the ship?

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:19pm

"This should not be a political issue but a moral and social question."

Exactly. Your own personal morals are your own personal morals - but who are any of us to force our beliefs on someone else and their bodies?

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:22pm

To answer the earlier question about reasons why people have abortions (sorry, it took a minute, I wanted to pull the 2006 stats from Guttmacher). Women were permitted to select multiple reasons, so the numbers do not equal 100.

rape or incest - 1.5%
health problems of mother - 12%
fetal health problems - 13%
unready for responsibility - 32%
too immature/young to have a child - 22%
woman's parents want the abortion - 6%
has problems in relationship - 48%
husband/partner wants her to have abortion - 14%
done childbearing - 38%
can't afford a baby now - 73%
concerned about how having a baby would change her life - 74%
doesn't want others to know she has had sex and/or is pregnant - 25%
other - 4%

Of women who get abortions
53.60% were using some form of contraception, though admittedly, the majority were not using them correctly. Only 16.9% of abortions are due to complete contraceptive failure.

Also, keep in mind that 61% of women who have abortions each year have already had at least one child.

Updated On: 9/4/06 at 11:22 PM

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:25pm

The right to privacy also protects a woman's right to choose not to have an abortion.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:31pm

"Is it fair that the children be forced to live as a consequence as a result of a mistake? "

On the flip side, is it fair to not allow a potential child to live because of a mistake?

I have a cousin who was flat out told by her parents she was a mistake. Her parents only wanted two kids and--oops--here came the third. And has it caused her pain and a big obstacle to get over? Yes. But at the same time, she's glad to be alive, and heck--now her parents are as well. And though she hasn't had the worst kind of parental neglect, people do overcome worse forms of it.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:31pm

It's 100% a personal choice for each woman. It's a horrible thing to go through mentally and physically regardless of the situation. No woman has ever gotten pregnant on purpose with the intention of having an abortion. I have had friends have to deal with it because of age, stupidity, financial situations and because of medical issues with the fetus. None of the decisions were easy. I hope it is never an easy decision for ANY woman. I just want to make sure that they are safe and legal.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:32pm

As long as abortion is legal and available, I don't feel a single woman has to give anyone her reason for electing to have one. It's no one's business but her own.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:33pm

Get your religion out of my body.

It is my choice, and no one else's.

And, not all of us believe that conception = the point in time a life is born.

As brdlwyr has said, this is a bigger issue regarding the right to personal privacy, the right for a woman to control her body and make decisions for herself.

At what point do decisions about birth control then become an issue for government intervention?

I do not know if I would ever have an abortion, but the decision is mine to make, not the government's or any religious group.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:49pm

i would never have one but i'm not going to tell someone that they can't. it's not any of my buisness what they do. it's not anyone elses buisness either.

and since this topic was brought up, i am also very much in favor of people adopting children. i grew up with a cousin who was adopted from korea so i never throught it was strange to see a white couple with a black or asian or anythign else child. it wasn't untill i was older that i realized how few people adopt a baby who isn't the same race as they are, compared to those who would only adopt a baby who looked like them.
i went to high school with someone who had been in foster care her whole life. i was really sad when she told me all about it and i decided then that when i am older and ready to be a mom i'm going to adopt a child from foster care. it's sad when kids have to go their whole lifes without having a family.

[Becoz_i_knew_you21]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:08am

I think it's a womens choice and the goverment should have no control over it. Condoms and the pill are not 100% effective.
Updated On: 9/5/06 at 12:08 AM

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 12:34am

CATS, that's one of my favorite lines from "The Birdcage."

[cudramacat]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 8:02am

I'm not going to state my opinon but I don't think abortion should be legal as a for of birth control.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 8:52am

I'm strongly pro-choice, for the record, but I feel like there's a need for some devil's advocacy here. This debate has been too simple because we're all, basically, pro-choice.... and I am, but some of the arguments don't make sense.

I feel that women should have the freedom to make decisions about their own body - within reason of course. It's absurd to think that a group of mostly male lawmakers feel that they have the right to make that decision for millions of women.

That group of mostly-male legislators makes decisions about ALL aspects of American life, and have been elected by the people to do so. I don't like this as an argument, because, what, are we going to put some topics out of bounds for the legislature on the basis that they're too WASP-y? From a democratic principles standpoint, I don't think that we can criticize the legislature for stepping in on an issue of (to some) public health.

The other thing that most of you are forgetting is that, for the majority of pro-life advocates, it's not about "their own bodies." She has another potential human being inside of her, a separate life that has already been conceived and partially developed. We think that women who kill their infants are abhorrent, but does life only start at birth, and the child is part of the mother all the way through from conception until then? When does life, in terms of personhood and the accompanying rights, begin?

Who are any of us to force our beliefs on someone else and their bodies?

You say that people are incorrectly imposing their religious views on others, but doesn't religion inform personal senses of morality? There's no answer to this question, so I truly don't see how one can blame religious views on life. And to the people who think that life begins at conception or early on in development, the choice that the woman is making isn't about her own body, but a choice to end another person's life. Even in society this is an issue--someone who murders a pregnant woman can be charged for two murders. What's the difference between that and abortion -- wantedness? Stage of development? There are no clear developmental lines at which we may say, "This is not a person. This is a person." This isn't an issue of religion vs. science, because science doesn't have an answer to this. If the issue is that the fetus is a person, which obviously is a really subjective thing and dependent on moral beliefs, they aren't forcing beliefs on others so much as protecting another person from being killed... which is something that we all value as a society. Updated On: 9/5/06 at 08:52 AM

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 2:16pm

Seriously, this is just going to die now that someone's posted arguments? That's not very encouraging, given that I actually do support abortion rights.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 2:18pm

No, I think it's just that the majority of the discussion happened yesterday and most opinions have already been covered.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 2:23pm

Well, that's fair. I just thought that would be interesting to challenge some of the oft-cited pro-choice arguments as not being fullproof. I think that abortion rights can be defended, of course, but I don't agree with all of the defenses presented.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 2:31pm

SS, your post motivated me to reply. As far as the legislature, etc. Well, there ARE differences between men and women, mentally and emotionally as well as physically. IMO, men are not in a position to make decisions which have to do with something so monumental as carrying a child. I consider this issue quite different from all the other types of law which they pass.

Whose body is it? Well, I believe it is my body. I don't happen to believe that a group of cells which has gone as far as becoming a blood clot is already another person. I'm sorry to be graphic here, please excuse me, but I saw what was taken from my body after my abortion. There's no way I will ever think I killed someone that day.

If you believe that a person exists at conception, well, that's your opinion, and I respect your right to have it. (the general "you").

The fact that many of the issues concerning abortion are matters of belief and opinion, that cannot be proven, supports the merit of maintaining legal abortions.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 2:41pm

By taking away options and choices, though, they are forcing their religious beliefs onto others.

The issue is whether one person can use their personal beliefs to control the body and choices of another person. The issue of when life begins does make this more difficult, but at its core, the decision about whether to have or not have an abortion is based upon an individuals moral and religious beliefs, as well as individual circumstances.

No one should be able to impose those beliefs on me.

The state should not compel me to bring a life into this world (and, for the record, the state should not take a life in punishment). I am pro-choice and anti-death penalty all for the same basic reason - it is not the state's place to compel a person to have child, just as it is not the state's place to take a life in the name of justice.

[DG]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 2:51pm

"We think that women who kill their infants are abhorrent, but does life only start at birth, and the child is part of the mother all the way through from conception until then? When does life, in terms of personhood and the accompanying rights, begin?"

Siren asked about something more than a blod clot.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/5/06 at 3:09pm

"You say that people are incorrectly imposing their religious views on others, but doesn't religion inform personal senses of morality?"

Please. Read Leviticus. Lots of justifiable murder in there including that of children. Millions of religious fanatics for centuries have used religion to justify murder and violence and many continue to do so today, including the Pro-Lifers.

Let's put the shoe on the other foot, shall we? Say a law was passed that all unmarried pregnant women are required to have an abortion. Pro-Choice is about the choice. It does not mean Pro-Abortion. But forcing women to carry a baby to term and give birth because of a mistake, failed contraception, or from a rape could only increase the rate of poverty and the number of orphans needing placement. Should abortion ever be outlawed, do you think the government will have adequate funds to assist with child care, adoption, and/or sex education? Me neither.

And outlawing abortion will not stop women from wanting to have an abortion. It will only perpetuate illegal abortions as it did in the past.

It's not like a woman will say, "Gosh, since abortion is against the law, I guess I really want this spawn of a rapist to remind me every day how I survived the worst ordeal of my life! I promise to nurse it through its cocaine withdrawal, never ever resent it, and drop it off at my parents' house when they are not high so that I can finish the last two years of high school between my jobs at Dairy Queen and White Castle before I'm 21." That's just one scenario, of course, but it's also a very common one.

Personally, I think both men and women should be forced to take classes, pass exams, and get a license to raise children, but that's just me. Just because people can have children doesn't mean that they should.