Abortion. Your thoughts?- Page 3

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:01pm

Yes, I think that is the point. The pro-life movement wants all of these babies to be born but there are only homes for the healthy lily white ones. The foster care system is FULL of children. Why aren't the pro-life folks adopting them? They want hundreds of thousands of babies to be born who will end up in orphanages, the foster care system or worse. (The ultimate slap in the face is that there are thousands of gay couples that would be happy to adopt many of these children. Those same people who want them born don't want the gays to be allowed to adopt.)

Updated On: 9/4/06 at 10:01 PM

[oxdreaminxo]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:03pm

That isn't true. And my point was left unanswered. I don't understand it. Murder is murder. And wow, I feel kinda harsh. Sorry. *blush*

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:08pm

What isn't true? There is not one statement I made that is untrue. And how do you define "unwanted" in your friends situations? Do they have a home and meals and clothes to wear to school? Do they get an education? I am defining unwanted as leaving them in orphanages and in the foster care system. There is a big difference. While there are great foster parents, many of the kids end up lost in the system.

[oxdreaminxo]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:14pm

"The pro-life movement wants all of these babies to be born but there are only homes for the healthy lily white ones."

That. If that's the case, why do hundred of thousands of people adopt children with AIDS or other life-threatening diseases.

I define unwanted as abused, mentally and physically.

Whatever. I don't want a fight breaking out. I just returned to this board and I don't want *too* many people to hate me. *innocent* Jersey, let's just agree to disagree, mmk?

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:19pm

"That. If that's the case, why do hundred of thousands of people adopt children with AIDS or other life-threatening diseases."

While this is the case for some, they are very much in the minority. Many, many, many more children of color or children with illness or disability are left to the system every single year.

There is a waiting list for white newborns, but all others have much smaller odds of finding a home.

And by restricting abortion, thus limiting options of women potentially raises the abuse risk for children who result from these unintended pregnancies. Many children who are born of unintended pregnancies are loved and raised in communities of care, but that is because their families had the ability to contemplate options and determine whether continuing the pregnancy is the right decision for them. Women who are not permitted the options and are forced to continue the pregnancy out of default have a higher potential risk of developing resentment towards their children which can be manifested in the form of abuse or neglect.

[Jane2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:23pm

Elphaba, thanks for saying that. I agree with you-when a man is capable of becoming pregnant and carrrying a child for nine months, I'll respect his opinion. I had an abortion (at five weeks pregnant-the earliest that planned parenthood would perform one) and I'm not the least bit regretful. I am not cut out to be a parent.

[Calvin]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:25pm

And there's certainly no denying her statement that pro-lifers are the most likely to want to ban gays from adopting or being foster parents.

[oxdreaminxo]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:26pm

...Being Pro-Life I honestly don't care if a gay couple choose to adopt/foster a child. More power to them. Their child will become accepting of others which is, in my opinion, a good thing.

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:27pm

"Women who are not permitted the options and are forced to continue the pregnancy out of default have a higher potential risk of developing resentment towards their children which can be manifested in the form of abuse or neglect."

Which is exactly what happened to me - I was raised by a woman who resented the hell out of having to raise me. I will always feel and have to deal with the negative effects of that abusive childhood.

That said, I am very glad she did not terminate her pregnancy.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:30pm

I have observed that issues of women's rights are often ignored on this board.

[Calvin]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:32pm

Being Pro-Life I honestly don't care if a gay couple choose to adopt/foster a child.

But you are in the extreme minority of pro-lifers, and she was talking more about the hypocrisy of the movement as a whole, not your own opinions, although I'm sure they are heartfelt and sincere.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:41pm

That. If that's the case, why do hundred of thousands of people adopt children with AIDS or other life-threatening diseases.


For every child adopted with a serious disease or developmental disability there are hundreds waiting for a home. As of 1997, there were 110,000 special needs kids waiting for adoption. That was the last time that information was compiled and released. With an issue like Autism occuring in 1 in 166 births in the US, that number must be MUCH higher at this point.

As for race, Black, Latino, Asian and Native American children make up 27% of all children adopted in this country.

People who can legally adopt overwhelmingly want healthy white babies. Only 17% of adoptive parents adopt outside their own race.

Updated On: 9/4/06 at 10:41 PM

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:43pm

"Women who are not permitted the options and are forced to continue the pregnancy out of default have a higher potential risk of developing resentment towards their children which can be manifested in the form of abuse or neglect."

I am very much on the fence with abortion, but when this sort of statement comes up I always have to ask: Isn't it better to have the opportunity to be alive--even with neglecting parents--than to not have the opportunity at all? Aren't there people who overcome that, despite the pain? Sometimes the "the government can't tell woman what to do with their bodies," argument doesn't make complete sense to me. Aren't those who are pro-life telling women what to do with the potential life they may have at hand for at least 9 months...not their bodies? I mean, if a woman wasn't allowed to get her tubes tied, that would be a different story.

Just playing devil's advocate here. As I said, I'm on the fence. If I pick a side, I feel like there's a lot of insensitivty towards either the child or mother. And while I don't think I could ever have an abortion and be okay with that, I'm not sure I'd feel right telling someone else in a dire situation what to do.
Updated On: 9/4/06 at 10:43 PM

[fflagg]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:45pm

Of course it is up to the woman to decide.

1. an abortion is not a flu shot and should be taken seriously
2. if you do not want to get pregnant, use protection or don't have sex
3. if a man could get pregnant, there would be more abortion clinics in this country than Starbuck's, abortions would be free, and the white trash who are pro-life would disappear

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:45pm

And a few stats on our wonderful foster care system:

After aging out of foster care, 27% of males and 10% of females were incarcerated within 12 to 18 months. 50% were unemployed, 37% had not finished high school, 33% received public assistance, and 19% of females had given birth to children. Before leaving care, 47 percent were receiving some kind of counseling or medication for mental health problems; that number dropped to 21% after leaving care.

[Type_A_Tiff]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:48pm

Aren't those who are pro-life telling women what to do with the potential life they may have at hand for at least 9 months...not their bodies? I mean, if a woman wasn't allowed to get her tubes tied, that would be a different story.

But they are telling women what to do with their bodies. They're saying that no matter what YOU want to do, you've GOT to allow a fetus to grow in your uterus for nine months and deal with all the physical and emotional ramifications that will follow.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:50pm

"and the white trash who are pro-life would disappear"

A statement that only greater inflames the debate while discouraging valuable discourse. Statements like this are so incredibly detrimental to the pro choice movement.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:51pm

"But they are telling women what to do with their bodies. They're saying that no matter what YOU want to do, you've GOT to allow a fetus to grow in your uterus for nine months and deal with all the physical and emotional ramifications that will follow."

Well, this is why I'm curious as to what exactly the reasons for most abortions are. If it's not rape, then it's the result of something like sex without protection...is it that ridiculous to say the woman should take responsibility for her own actions?

(Again, playing devil's advocate here)

[fflagg]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:52pm

Excuse me: a doctor who performed abortions was shot dead in his kitchen a few years ago. Was his killer a Harvard grad? A person of mature thought and reason?

Please.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:53pm

"Well, this is why I'm curious as to what exactly the reasons for most abortions are. If it's not rape, then it's the result of something like sex without protection...is it that ridiculous to say the woman should take responsibility for her own actions?

(Again, playing devil's advocate here) "

That's turning a child into a consequence, a very dangerous road.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:54pm

"Excuse me: a doctor who performed abortions was shot dead in his kitchen a few years ago. Was his killer a Harvard grad? A person of mature thought and reason?

Please. "

These individuals make up such a small minority of the pro-life movement.

It's akin to calling all Arabs terrorists.

[fflagg]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:55pm

tell that to his widow.

[colleen_lee]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:56pm

I will if that's the mentality that she's developed.

[BroadwayGirl107]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 10:56pm

"That's turning a child into a consequence, a very dangerous road."

Well, yes, one would assume that's why she wants to get rid of it. If she had unprotected sex, the pregnancy is the consequence, and it honestly could have been expected. Is it fair to cut a potential life off before it starts because the potential results of unprotected sex were not considered?

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/4/06 at 11:01pm

My thoughts? The U.S. Constitution affords certain rights of privacy, among these are a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion without the state interfering. There are some limitations that may be constitutional, but these are limited.

On a personal level, I have known many women who have had abortions and have been involved in part of the decision process. I have also counseled men who have been involved. The question of abortion is not a poster or a billboard. It is a very difficult and personal issue that causes great pain - emotionally and physically.

I respect those that have firm beliefs on both sides. I do not however, respect the use of violence or intimidation by those against abortion. This should not be a political issue but a moral and social question.