Before BROKEBACK, there was MAKING LOVE (Coming to DVD at last!!!)- Page 2

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 4:02pm

You two need to get a room! May/December:Making Love II.

[eslgr8]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 4:56pm

Badreligion certainly has the right to hate this movie. On the other hand, it really bothers me how often on this board, people who disagree with one person's positive evaluation of something will go out of their way to state their opposing opinions in such a way as to imply that those who like the film or show in question are idiots to like "garbage" which is "awful awful awful." Talk about hyperbole!

Over 70% of those who have voted on this film at imdb.com gave it between a 7 and a 10, over 70%, and just over 5% rated it between a 1 and a 3.

Comments at imdb include:
"A totally under-rated ground-breaking film..."
"A gay classic"
"Groundbreaking - ahead of its time"
"Excellent Movie For The Time"
"AN EXCELLENT FILM: AHEAD OF IT'S TIME IN IT'S CONTENT!"
"Not perfect but awfully good"
"This movie changed my life"
"Underrated Landmark Film"
"A Wonderful Movie"

I do believe that Making Love not as good a film as it could have been. Clearly the filmmakers were unwilling to go all the way (even the kiss is brief and shot at a distance). This timidity is especially obvious when compared to indie films of the past 5-10 years.

But remember, this was 24 years ago, at a time when much if not most of mainstream America was barely aware that gay men were having (or even capable of having) serious relationships, and at a time when 0.??% of straight Americans had even seen two men kiss.

Especially when seen in the context of its time, Making Love is absolutely a film worth seeing. (In my opinion, of course.)
Updated On: 1/4/06 at 04:56 PM

[eslgr8]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 5:12pm

It's gratifying to see that a carefully thought out and painstakingly written posting has merited such a lovely and thoughtful response.
Updated On: 1/4/06 at 05:12 PM

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 5:31pm

eslgr8, I love you for that last response. Love. You.

[sabrelady]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 5:31pm

Never liked the female depiction in this movie- since she can't have her "true" love- she "settles" for a "hetero" love but can't stop her longing.. ech.

[Marquise]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 6:04pm

I've seen this movie more than once. Kate Jackson, in my opinion gave the best performance in the film. Ontkean came off as weak and even weaker, almost pathetic when he completely falls in love with Harry Hamlin's character who is not only a pretentious pr*ck, but a self-centered homo who is devoid of any real feelings and wouldn't know love it it smacked him across the face. It may have been groundbreaking because it chose gay themes for it's story but I had issues with this film.

EDIT: 20th Century-Fox released MAKING LOVE.
Updated On: 1/4/06 at 06:04 PM

[cturtle]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 6:19pm

yes, his character was a prick, but seeing hamlin in bed with another man is in itself something to get excited about

[eslgr8]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 8:34pm

Thank you, SorryGrateful! XXOOXX!

You know, I realized after this thread got going that I made it sound like I consider Making Love to be at the level of Brokeback Mountain. Far from it! Brokeback Mountain deserves the Best Picture Oscar, or certainly at least a nomination, something that could never be said for Making Love.

What prompted me to say that "Before Brokeback, there was Making Love" is that it's taken nearly a quarter century for a major studio to release a gay love story, and Brokeback Mountain isn't even being released by one of the classic big ones: Columbia, WB, Paramount, Universal, or 20th Century Fox (which released Making Love).

Making Love was released just like any other movie, to theaters all over the country, and not just art houses. It wasn't a comedy which played gays for laughs, and it wasn't an illness drama, which portrayed gays as victims. It was the story of a man discovering he was gay, having the courage to live his live honestly, and eventually find love with another man. Groundbreaking? Absoulutely.

And you know what, it's as relevant today as it was in 1982. Just look at former New Jersey governor James McGreevey, who lived as much of a lie in 2004 as did Michael Ontkean's character in 1982. And if Making Love has been criticized as focusing too much on Kate Jackson as the wounded wife, well perhaps Mrs. McGreevy wouldn't agree, nor would the creative team behind Brokeback Mountain, who realized that Ennis' and Jack's wives also had their own stories to be told.

I am REALLY excited to see Making Love again, and on the "big" screen for the first time (my projection TV). As someone who sees just about every gay themed movie, I believe that Making Love, flawed as it is, is as good as if not better than a lot of movies released today, and well worth a second, or first, look.

It's a time capsule of what gay life was like, just before AIDS, at a time when no one could ever have imagined that a happy ending might not be happily ever after.
Updated On: 1/4/06 at 08:34 PM

[Marquise]

Posted: 1/4/06 at 8:48pm

I agree that it is a groundbreaking film only because it chose to show a homosexual relationship and *not only* a homosexual relationship but one that sprung out of a heterosexual one.

The relationship between Ontkean and Hamlin when looking back rings true as a first homosexual experience for someone who is just beginning to discover it. Hamlin's character knows this and plays with Ontkean's head because he knows that. Hamlin is clearly a *playa* and has his fling with Ontkean at his expense. He knows that he won't invest anything emotionally but Ontkean, not knowing any better *does* get emotionally involved with Hamlin and in the process winds up getting his heart broken. How many of us haven't had that same experience where you *think* a relationship is headed in one direction only to find out that the other person was just f*cking with your head.

[eslgr8]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 1:51am

Marquise is right. There is a lot in this film that rings true. I was very much in the closet and avoiding dealing with my sexuality when this film came out, and for years after. I still remember watching the scenes of Michael Ontkean's character Zack waiting in his car outside a gay bar, fearful to enter, sharing that fear, and envying his being able to go inside. A lot of the authenticity was due to the fact that the screenwriter, Barry Sandler, was an openly gay man writing from his own experience/insight, that in itself almost unheard of in Hollywood in 1982. If you think about the skittishness of Hollywood in the years between 1982 and now to even approach serious gay themes in mainstream movies, let alone an out and out same sex romance, it's almost unthinkable that this film got made. Perhaps we can regret that it wasn't a great film, but I believe that even had it been one, the country wasn't ready to see it. (Still $12 million in tickets were sold, and that was 1982 dollars, so not only gay people went to see this film.) Sadly, I believe it took the AIDS epidemic for many Americans to finally see gay people as human beings capable of loving relationships. Still, compare the sanitized for mainstream America no-touch no-kiss relationship between Tom Hanks and Antonio Banderas in 1993's AIDS drama Philadelphia with the physicality of Ontkean and Harry Hamlin 11 years before and you can see how ahead of its time Making Love was.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 10:48am

omg! how could you ask that sham? after reading this whole thread? really? this is one of the greatest pieces of satire ever posted to bww.




isn't it?

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 11:00am

Apparently the original MAKING LOVE screenplay was considerably richer, with far more nuance. You can tell that it was radically adjusted -- soaped up -- as Wendy Hiller's performance -- supposedly a key figure between the husband wife -- is all but cut out, even as they keep talking about the character. I recall it as being excessively San Fernando Valley, very Lifetime movie.

Speaking of which, there was a damned good film on this subj with Jean Smart on LIFETIME, when she found out her husband was gay. (The husand was played by the creepy father on LOST.) Actually, though still LIFETIME, it was quite credible, and didn't sugarcoat everything, since Jean stayed pissy and the kids turned on their dad bigtime. Didn't have all that fake compassion where everybody just wants Mums and Dad to be "who they are."

[eslgr8]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 11:42am

I also liked the 1998 Jean Smart TV movie "A Change of Heart." Jean Smart is unbeatable in anything she does, comedy or drama. However one major difference between A Change of Heart and Making Love is that, as I recall, Smart's movie focused almost completely on the wife's story, whereas Making Love is as much about Zack's journey into his new life as a gay man as it is Claire's discovery of her husband's secret. Also, Zack and Claire hadn't been married nearly as long as Smart's character and her husband, and there were no children to get pissy. It's been a few years since I've seen either, but one thing that impressed me about Making Love was the way it showed how much Zack loved Claire. Like many a conflicted gay man, he had married his best friend, someone he truly loved, but could never love in a romantic/sexual way. I would guess that Hiller's role might have been cut as much for time considerations as anything else. The final film is 113 minutes, not long by today's standards, but additional scenes would have given it over a two hour running time.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 11:44am

Oh, are they included in the extras? Maybe this would be a "director's cut."

[eslgr8]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 11:50am

Unfortunately, like many an older and less "prestigious" title coming out on DVD, it appears that this one will be without extras, though it would certainly be interesting to have the director/writer/cast's impressions 24 years after making the movies.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 11:54am

If they haven't added footage of Harry's dick, I'm not buying it.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 11:55am

Not to mention the fabulous music video with Ontkean and Hamlin running in the surf in speedos to the strains of Roberta Flack.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 2:22pm

Now Sueleen, you aren't moved by "...there's more to love ...than MAKING LOVE..." I bet you don't cry when Neely and Tony meet up in the hospital, either. Some people just have walls around their heart.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 2:24pm

Any word on when BOYS IN THE BAND is coming to DVD? Now THAT'S a film for which I'll shell out my dough.

Posted: 1/5/06 at 2:41pm

Fond memories of this film....and major crushes on all three leads! (Love me some Charlie's Angels)

[Marquise]

Posted: 1/5/06 at 3:16pm

Ewww. THE BOYS IN THE BAND. I HATE that movie with a passion.
end THREADJACK

[eslgr8]

Posted: 2/12/06 at 9:12pm

At last!!! A few days after its arrival, I found time to watch the DVD of Making Love yesterday and I have to say it's even better than I remembered it to be. Though yes it does have its Douglas Sirkesque soapy moments, it's mostly a beautifully acted and still very relevant film. Kate Jackson should have become a major film (not TV) star; in this movie she is absolutley enchanting, and proves herself in scene after scene to be a splendid and subtle actor. Michael Ontkean is just right as sexually conflicted Zack, and Harry Hamlin oozes sex appeal as Bart, the man Zack falls for. The scenes of Zack driving around gay areas filled with fear and longing, his initial visits to a gay bar, his growing realization of his sexual orientation, his first same sex love affair...all of these ring as true in 2006 as they did 25 years ago when the film was made. Despite some dated styles (dig the way the gay men dressed in the late 70s/early 80s), the film has a surprisingly contemporary look to it. The music by Leonard Rosenberg is superb. As many reviews at the imdb have indicated, this is a film that has grown in stature since its original release, with many feeling that it is a sadly underestimated gem. Hopefully with the DVD release, younger (and older) audiences will (re)discover this very historic yet still effective film.

[cturtle]

Posted: 2/12/06 at 10:06pm

how is the picture/sound quality? i have this on vhs (archived to DVD).

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 2/12/06 at 11:07pm

"this is a film that has grown in stature since its original release"

What ever you say, SSquared.

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/13/06 at 10:15am

I remember crying my eyes out at the end of this movie, when I saw it in the theatre. I had no idea why it was affecting me so, back then. Little did I know. It was my senior year in high school, and I was far from "out."

Most of you have NO idea what it was like, even in the '80s, for main stream, gay-themed films or TV shows.

THERE WEREN'T ANY.

This film was a rarity in its day, and I still have very fond (and confusing) memories of it.