Brokeback Mountain won and it just seemed so ordinary- Page 5

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:15pm

PalJoey never makes up nothing.

Despite what some would have you believe about this movie being a dull failure, all over America people are being moved by it--some to tears, some to bigotry. Now that's what I call failure!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:18pm

Let me also give my reaction to the award wins in HOPE that it will further convey my stance on this LOVELY debate we have spent much time and threads on.

Who did I want to win Best Picture based on my faves of the year/who am I rooting for at the Oscars?

Good Night, and Good Luck and Crash

I liked Brokeback well enough to not be offended that it is winning the awards. And knowing that Pat Robertson and Friends will have to read BROKEBACK WINS 4 GOLDEN GLOBES or BROKEBACK GETS 10 OSCAR NOMINATIONS, etc. makes me very happy. But I do see this as a Culture War so that might just explain why I have this view.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:21pm

I was about to put in all caps ALL ART IS POLITICAL...but then realized you were being sarcastic.

As a gay man, I was disappointed on several completely different levels. But the one I'm stuck on as of right now is the whole 'Let's pat each other on the back' aspect. A bunch of straight folk made a gay flick that straight critics have adored, apparently because it's all so TRUE! Those gays got it ROUGH! And we GET IT!

So I don't think some of our quibbles (small and large) with the film should not be dismissed by anyone...especially for being 'counterproductive' for the movement. The true importance of the film is not the film, but the dialogue that's hopefully ensuing (do any of us REALLY know? No...but whatever...we live in hope). And our comments are essential to that dialogue. We can say, 'OK...you made this flick and embraced it. Thanks...but now let us tell you what being gay in America is REALLY about.'

The actual gay voice seems to be lost in the shuffle. And we are not one voice...we're like fugue. And, like the best fugues, each part must be heard for the entire piece to be effective.

I wish as many people who see BM can see the Logo Documentaries BACHELOR FARMER and FARM FAMILY (premiering this week). Let US tell you about our amazingly diverse lives and the difficulties of being fabulous in the city and the joys of living a simpler life in small communities.

Updated On: 1/17/06 at 12:21 PM

[Calvin]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:25pm

But the way the studio did that was by opening it up in just five Blue State cities where there were large, built-in gay audiences, so the first showings had blockbuster numbers.

"And they get these high numbers and all the buzz going,” Kupelian said, “and then pretty soon it's sort of like the emperor's new clothes effect: we're all looking at that -- even middle, Christian America, saying, 'Everybody else says this movie is so great. I need to go see it to see why it's so great.'"

My heavens! You mean to tell me that a movie studio set up a release to ensure its film would be successful? How nefarious! How evil! How underhanded!

By the way, I love the title of the book. When he tries to sell it, is he marketing The Marketing of Evil? Is that in of itself evil? I hated logic in college.

[Luscious]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:28pm

LOL, Borstal! Pat Robertson as Fartman!!! Love the image!

I don't quite get the "ordinary" reference either. Maybe "predictable", "lack-luster", or even "anti-climatic", would have been a better choice of words. But more importantly, this inquiring mind would like to know if Apollo has found a date yet. He's too cute to be single. And his drop-bys are far too infrequent.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:30pm

Oh...and the one thing I never made clear:

I love this thread title because it totally ruined the Golden Globes for folks who hadn't watched it yet!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:32pm

oh, robbie, I have NEVER found the criticism of the film to be worthy of dismissal. And, none of my replies have been towards those comments, which I agree with---let's do have a mainstream, unironic, gay romantic comedy next--THAT would be a step.

What I am sick of, find pathethic, and see as counterproductive is the bizarre obsession Namo, Kringas, papa (3 people I ADORE) and others have with needing to come into E V E R Y Brokeback thread and bash, ridicule, discredit, etc etc etc. We. Get. It. You. Are. Dis. Pleased.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:40pm

"I wish as many people who see BM can see the Logo Documentaries BACHELOR FARMER and FARM FAMILY (premiering this week). Let US tell you about our amazingly diverse lives and the difficulties of being fabulous in the city and the joys of living a simpler life in small communities."

This is EXACTLY what I suggested in my discussion of the film and my suggestion was poo-pooed.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:41pm

Well, Jane! I'd have NEVER poo-pooed on that suggestion!

[Luscious]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 12:42pm

For a more deeply penetrating portrayal of gay cowboy romance, allow me to recommend the highly acclaimed, multi-award winning...



... and fellas, be sure to have a hankie handy.

Updated On: 1/17/06 at 12:42 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 1:46pm

I've seen BuckleRoos and I can honestly say, one hankie is not enough.

[DG]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 1:53pm

Especially if you get the three-disc special edition.

So I've heard.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 1:58pm

Robbie_not you. I think it was Blue Wizard who made fun of it.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 2:52pm

No, I don't think it was me; I've never even heard of BACHELOR FARMER and FARM FAMILY. But if you can find a post from me, I will stand corrected.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 2:58pm

Yes, I mentioned that a documentary might be more effective than a movie starring two screen idols, and you replied with something like, oh sure, I can just see 20/20, etc. Actually, the discussion started with me on page 3 of this thread and continued on page 4.

Updated On: 1/17/06 at 02:58 PM

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 3:13pm

Oh, you're referring to that. I was actually being completely serious there (sorry if you got the wrong impression): I definitely CAN see 20/20 doing a special capitalizing off the success of BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, where they examine the life of real ranchers in the Midwest. And if Diane Sawyer or Barbara Walters were involved, it'd be a tearfest (that last sentence is the only remark that's a bit in jest).

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 3:20pm

No, that wasn't what I meant at all. I thought I was pretty clear in my description of a serious documentary focusing on average looking "real" gay guys who may live the life style of Brokeback. I suggested it may bring the situation closer and make it more realistic to those naive folks across the country who saw the movie starring gorgeous screen idols and don't connect it to what is the truth right next door to them. I went into this in my posts. Sorry if I wasn't articulate enough there.

[robbiej]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 3:25pm

I actually saw BACHELOR FARMER and another doc about being gay in rural areas...and neither were, in the least, 'tearfests'. They showed real people making real lives for themselves in areas we big city homos stereotypcially believe that gays can't make lives for themselves there. It was terrifically affecting, without being maudlin or overly sentimental.

[Jane2]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 3:32pm

That's what I meant, Robbie, thanks! Those phobic folks may connect with something like that rather than BBM, but it's just a theory of mine.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 10:23pm

What I am sick of, find pathethic, and see as counterproductive is the bizarre obsession Namo, Kringas, papa (3 people I ADORE)...

That rips it. You know what? To quote the gifted actor Philip Seymour Hoffman in the under-rated Joel Schumacher film "Flawless" when his character confronts the Log Cabin Gay Republicans, Jerby, "you're my sister and I love you but F*CK you, okay? Okay honey?"

You tell me how YOU rushing to the defense of a movie that you have THREE DISTINCT POINTS OF VIEW ON and are prepared to focus on any given one when it suits which ever purpose you're trying to serve as if the movie were a helpless baby about to be eaten by a dingo is any less pathetic, I'd like to hear it.

Actually, I wouldn't. I really wouldn't.

But you should know that threads with titles like "Bareback Mountain" and my Brokeback Cheerleading threads are probably not going to be reverential enough for your POV #2. Or whichever POV is the one you pull out to be "against" whatever I or the rest of the triumvirate you constructed and placed me in refuses to respond in a manner that YOU deem is appropriate.

Do yourself a favor. Ignore the things I post on this or basically any subject, because you seem to take things as a personal insult. And now that you're suddenly having problems with people you "adore" and it's happening with more than one, perhaps you should consider that the problem really is with you.

I don't want a single PM from you about this or anything else. Not a one. Ok? Thanking you in advance.

Updated On: 1/17/06 at 10:23 PM

[fflagg]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 10:27pm

The movie won because it is yet another weak year in the American film industry and because it is PC: If I hear one more time about the 'bravery' involved. . . .

How about a big-budget comedy featuring 2 gay lead characters with a happy ending and no one dies??

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 10:30pm

Ya mean like 1996's 120 million dollar plus The Birdcage starring Robin Williams and Nathan Lane?

There's just no market for that kind of thing.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 10:36pm

I caught THE BIRDCAGE on television a few days ago. Ghastly film with a rushed ending. Now THERE's a movie that has done nothing for the gay rights movement.

But like BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, it elicits ambivalent reactions: on the one hand, it shows a happy, stable gay couple who raise a successful son. On the other hand, it's still falling into the gay minstrel trap, of portraying sexless queens who serve the straights and don't really demand respect in return (at least the musical of LA CAGE had "I Am What I Am").

Updated On: 1/17/06 at 10:36 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 10:48pm

Wow, Namo. Nice way of taking my comments are twisting them all around.

As I stated to robbie, I have never minded the opposing point of view--merely nastiness and negativity hurled at people. And, I do think you disrespect people the way you have been behaving. You dismiss everyone who likes or supports this film's opinion--whether or not they are asking for it.

I find it fascinating that people like you think that you get to decide what is ok to like and dislike. You get to decide what people are allowed to be passionate about. You get to decide what is true activism and what is not. And, you have been nothing but horrendously disrespectful to various people and to me.

And, you can start as many negative threads as Jose will allow you--it's when you barge into every other thread to be rude that I find to be bizarre and ridiculous.

And, I don't have any personal problems with Kringas or papa or you--other than the fact that you have taken this and made it personal. And if fighting over a political issue or art is going to destroy a friendship, well that friendship was crap apparently and I think the person who would do that has some major issues. As I have said to you, papa and I have been terribly harsh to each other in political debates--but we always laugh about it later and make up. And, no matter what, we truly respect each other and that the other person truly cares about the matter discussed.

I don't believe I have EVER tried to disrespect your opinion of this film--ONLY your disrespect on the boards. You are thought of as a cruel bully by many, and I only found that out first hand when I DARED defy you.

And, I won't be PMing you about this, but I will say that you come off like a raving loon in that post---I mean, if we are going to continue psychoanalyzing each other and all.

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 1/17/06 at 10:50pm

I waslistening to the radio and this movie was called a HOMOSEXUAL FREAKSHOW.

I never saw the movie - and that's all I have to add.

I thought it was an interesting statement - that really shows how culturely diverse America is.

And that someone would say that on the air.



Updated On: 1/17/06 at 10:50 PM