"Brokeback Mountain" gets an A in EW- Page 3

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:17pm

I'd watch it, but if I hear those two talk about how the characters aren't really gay or how excruciating it was to perform the love scenes, I will break my TV.

Thank you, Jerby! I'm glad I'm not the only one a little peeved that Ledger and Gyllenhaal are denying how their characters are gay.

I know the sexual identity politics surrounding orientation definition and such, but Ledger and Gyllenhaal just sound ignorant and fearful. They're comments are disturbing because we finally have three-dimensional, non-stereotypical, empathizable gay characters on mainstream film, and they're denying the very essence of their characters. They're marginalizing what gay characters can be, and at the extreme, their comments can be interpreted as suggesting that gay character's can't have depth or be empathizable as people.

I wish they took a more pro-active stance and just said, "yeah, I'm playing a gay character. Many people struggle with being in the closet in a malicious society. These people exist, and I'm playing one of them."

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:26pm

I could kiss you, bluey! :)

I just read a great interview with Proulx where she talks about her inspiration being that she wanted to discuss what it must have been like to be gay in that time period--where coming out just wasn't an option for most people, especially a cowboy in Wisconsin. THAT'S the conflict.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:26pm

I understand where you guys are coming from and I sort of feel the same way, but at the same time I think maybe people are overanalyzing and overreacting a little bit about every little quote.

I think these two comments by Heath are interesting:

Heath Ledger talks to the L.A. times
"It's not something that we'd searched for in everyday life. But we're pretty sensible people, Jake and I. We realized we're just two people," says Ledger. "We realized it's necessary for the story — the level of intimacy had to be portrayed to increase the level of heartache for the story. It's easy to say it was difficult and hard, but it's really awkward having to do a love scene with anyone — whether it's a guy or a girl. There's a guy with the boom standing over you. It's always awkward."
Heath Ledger talks to Time
"I don't think Ennis could be labeled as gay. Without Jack Twist, I don't know that he ever would have come out. I think the whole point was that it was two souls that fell in love with each other."

Updated On: 12/4/05 at 05:26 PM

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:29pm

I don't object to that first quote.

And, I do understand his point in the second one, but I think "openly" before gay would make sense. Of course, he lives as straight--but who he is in his heart is what we're talking about.

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:34pm

Right, and there's sort of a conflict in society in general between a person not wanting to label themself and wanting to stand up and be counted. Some people may not want to be labeled, but if you want to make an impact sometimes you have to stand up and just say "this is what I am". Interesting things to think about I think.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:35pm

I could kiss you too, Jerby!

"I don't think Ennis could be labeled as gay. Without Jack Twist, I don't know that he ever would have come out. I think the whole point was that it was two souls that fell in love with each other."

This was the quotation I was commenting on. I know Heath Ledger is just being ignorant (he's confusing "gay" with "openly gay"), but it shows a real lack of understanding of the crux of the story, and the society in which his character lives. I just wish Ledger and Gyllenhaal would stop curtailing the gay issue. "It's not about being gay!" Bullsh*t, of course it is.

Of course, they're most likely speaking under the recommendations of their publicist. Surely they must realize how culturally important this film is, to many of their gay colleagues -- which brings up another bone I have to pick with Hollywood. Half the people interviewed for this movie and other Hollywood flicks with gay characters speak as if they've never met a gay person.

Methinks Ang Lee is the brain behind this endeavour.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:39pm

And some of that could be their way of bridging the gap--making it easier for heteros to understand. But at least put out truths! Don't make them think this is just "an Anne Heche moment".

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:45pm

Exactly, Jerby. Boy, Anne Heche really didn't do us any favours, did she?

Right, and there's sort of a conflict in society in general between a person not wanting to label themself and wanting to stand up and be counted. Some people may not want to be labeled, but if you want to make an impact sometimes you have to stand up and just say "this is what I am". Interesting things to think about I think.

Right, but I personally think that's an outdated and (frankly) regressive way of thinking about sexual identity politics. To bring up Kushner, it's the whole Roy Cohn approach: "A homosexual is someone without clout. I'm a man who fools around with other men."

This used to be (and still is, unfortunately) an acceptable way of perceiving sexuality, but it completely separates identity from the biology and physicality of the sexual act. I think it's dangerous to see sexual identity as independent from sexual action, because what we're seeing now in pop culture is a return to neutered stock characters -- QUEER EYE, Jack on WILL & GRACE -- who say they're gay, but completely lack any kind of real sex life. They're not gay because they sleep with men, they're gay because they're fairies.

Ledger's comments can be taken as the flipside of that: he screws men, but that doesn't mean he's "gay." As if to be gay you have to be a one-dimensional flaming queen.

Going back to Ang Lee, THE ICE STORM was on TV last night. Remarkable film: like an earlier AMERICAN BEAUTY. The ice imagery in the second half of the film is breathtakingly beautiful.

Updated On: 12/4/05 at 05:45 PM

[MrMidwest]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:53pm

I definitely understand what you mean and I've said similiar things to people on other message boards. I'm not quite sure what to make of some of the comments that people involved with the movie have made, but maybe things will become more clear with time.

[wendy72]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 12:01am

Ang Lee--The Ice Storm, Sense & Sensibility, Crouching Tiger,Hidden Dragon and now Brokeback Mountain--talk about range and please give this man an Oscar!

[RobbO]

Posted: 12/8/05 at 10:24am

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:50am

I'm having trouble deciding which BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN thread to post in, but here's the review from the LA Times' head critic, Kenneth Turan.
LA Times: Brokeback Mountain

[DG]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 7:48am

Brokeback Mountain reviews.

[DG]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 8:36am

This particular review is interesting because the young woman writing it takes issue with the presntation that the two men would have had that much difficulty coming to terms with their experience in the time it is set. She says she would have bought it more if it had been set in the 'old west' - but set when it is makes it difficult for her to accept the impossibility of their love.

There are already a couple of responses to her review that take her to task for this opinion. And she gives a little of her background that illuminates why she has this opinion.

While it's easy to take umbrage at what is basically her naivte, I actually feel this is an optimistic sign. If we are slowly developing a culture that doesn't see what the big deal is, then maybe in the long run there is hope.
Slant review.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 10:28am

Almost beside myself that I'm seeing this tonight!

[touchmeinthemorning]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 10:32am

I shall be seeing this tonight, as well.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 12:22pm

VH1 did a good behind the scenes special on it last night.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 12/9/05 at 10:47pm

I just got back home from seeing this film. While some here might object to a few comments made by the actors, it still does not change the fact that this film is, hands down, simply brilliant. It's a lush, gorgeous and heartbreaking love story that is more than overdue.

[insomniak]

Posted: 12/10/05 at 12:13am

"I don't think Ennis could be labeled as gay. Without Jack Twist, I don't know that he ever would have come out. I think the whole point was that it was two souls that fell in love with each other."

Heath Ledger is saying that his character isn't randomly horny for men- he's actually in love with Jack Twist and THAT is what matters, not the neat, categorical sexual orientation of the couple. He became aware of his attraction to men BECAUSE of one particular person, which lends credit to the belief that gay people can fall in love and not just lust.

"I think the whole point was that it was two souls that fell in love with each other."

Love is universal, not exclusive to straight couples. By the same token, it's also not just about gender, Ennis does not love Jack because he's male; he just does. Jack IS, however, male and so the two are gay by default, but not by purpose.

This isn't a movie just for queers; it's for anyone.
Updated On: 12/10/05 at 12:13 AM

[DG]

Posted: 12/10/05 at 3:25am

I really think there's a bit of a tendency for some gay men to over-politicize every little thing that is said, done or alluded to in these interviews. Personally, having read probably most of what these two young men have said concerning this film, I think their heads and hearts are in the right place - and the fact is, they did the film. Actions speak louder than words. And they certainly speak louder than the caterwauling which wants to negate the overall positive impact they are making.