Clearing The Air- Page 4

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 7:17am

I would still like to know the answer to this question: Who do I vote for if I like none of the 3 candidates ? I refuse to vote for the lesser of 3 evils . It says something about the state of our republic & our political system that these 3 are the best we have to offer. Moe, Larry & Curly would be better choices. Everyone was all over me like flies on **** but no one gives me an answer to this. I will not vote for GWB but cannot stand Kerry. Vote for Nader, that is almost as bad as not voting. You were all very good lacing into me so give me an answer to this. I really did not expect this brou ha ha over this but I want an answer from all you in the peanut gallery.

To Dame, after you rejected my offer of lighting a candle with" You're full of crap " remark, I could care less if you respect me as I have none for you. You jumped all over my case & compounded it. I know people are on your side & many here hate my guts but I don't give a flying ****

I eagerly await your response.

Updated On: 5/23/04 at 07:17 AM

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 8:27am

Actually, that *is* the way things are, Roxy. You live here, and the system...flawed as it is...has given you the choice between two (okay, three) individuals. Like it or not, one of them will be running the country. Before the 2000 election, I would have told you to go write in an obscure candidate to your liking. But as we learned from the Florida debacle, every vote really CAN make a difference. So pick from your choices this time ... and vote for which guy is less likely to get us all nuked off the face of the planet so that there IS another election four years from now. You may not like the choices you have...I know I'm not that thrilled, either...but at least we have them.

To say "I don't like the candidates so I'm not going to participate" strongly resembles a little kid's "I'm taking my toys and going home" when he doesn't get his way.

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 9:06am

Papa is right when he says that Democrats have traditionally invested a ton of money on the ground in Get Out The Vote activities (hence the reliance on the unions) but please note that this year the Republicans have learned the value of retail politics. The RNC is already well placed in almost all the battleground states for massive voter registration and GOTV initiatives.

This one is going to be a close race, and the parties are leaving little to chance in terms of organizing.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 9:34am

Excellent post, Iflit. And to continue on that vein-if we don't go out and vote, what could happen is that we could get a president chosen by the few who did feel strongly enough to go to the polls, and it could be disastrous. If we want our president to truly be chosen by the people, we must vote-everyone-even if it's not the most desirable candidate, but sometimes you must vote against the most undesirable candidate.

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 9:37am

Jane, for years we have had a president voted into office by a minority of registered (even eligible) voters. The truth is that most people in this country -- and in the entertainment profession -- do not vote.

Senior citizens (of all races) have the strongest demographic turn out. African-American women are second.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 10:17am

Zola, I know what you're saying-a shamelessly small percentage of eligible voters actually vote. I guess we're just trying to point out the danger in this to Roxy.

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 10:33am

Good luck!

Hey! Chalabi is on Meet the Press.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 10:44am

i can't help feeling that chalabi is headed for a kruschev moment with the shoe on the podium and such. this all reminds me of a line from tequila sunrise, "ah, gee, hal. at least the cia does it on purpose."

Updated On: 5/23/04 at 10:44 AM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 10:57am

I am sorry but I simply cannot vote for the lesser of 3 evils. Kerry has no values & his positions change from day to day. Nader went out with the 5 cent cigar

I will pull a blank ballot unless I can find another candidate ( who I might know his or her positions on ). If this offends people I am sorry. The man in the couple WE went with to Match yesterday feels the same way & is not voting. I will go to the polls & try but will not cast a vote for Moe, Larry or Curly. What is worse: not voting or voting for someone because you hate the other candidate. All Kerry is to some is someone who may not be as big an asshole as someone else. This is not a reason to vote for someone. I also hate to dissolution some but Kerry will not pull out of Iraq. He will put it in the hands of the UN who have been in bed with Saddam for the last 10 years & turned a blind eye as to what was happening when he was in power.

I could have voted for Lieberman even though he sold out his core principles when he ran with Gore in 2000. Gore payed him back by stabbing him in the back.

Updated On: 5/23/04 at 10:57 AM

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:06am

I have never voted based on whom I "like." This isn't the Miss America pageant. You're never going to like everything about any particular candidate and that is a ridiculous reason to stay away from the polls.

I have always voted based on the philosophical positions the candidates espouse. Example -- For me, this election is important as I would like president who will not nominate supreme court justices intent on overturning Roe v Wade or enacting what I consider to be deleterious social policy. I'd like to be represented by a president who believes that the government does have a role in alleviating poverty (and not in trickle-down). I'd like a president who wants to protect the environment in a way that fosters economic growth but is not subservient to it.

That's why I respect PLM so much even though Papa differs in the factors to select a president. I'm sure neither of us LOVES the candidates we'll vote for, but we'll cancel each other's votes out because the candidates we chose best represent the vision we have for America.

Updated On: 5/23/04 at 11:06 AM

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:11am

I do not trust any of them. Forget about like. How can I vote for someone whose policies I disagree with & who I do not trust. Please answer that question

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:13am

I did just answer that question: for me, it's about philosophy and vision not a particular set of policies or personality attributes.

If you fundamentally believe (erroneously in my opinion) that there is no difference between the parties, then vote for Nader. That's exactly his philosophy.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:21am

Ok, then don't vote. And when the absolute worst candidate gets in, don't complain.

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:26am

Really! I'm with Jane. Who cares?

Let's let this thread die.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:33am

Yes, but here's my REAL last post in this thread. To Mr. Roxy- bottom line is this-by saying you're not voting, you are in effect saying that you do not want a voice in who governs the country and that you are willing to go along with whatever the rest of us want. Good day.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:44am

oh, no, zola, i love gw, with a deep and passionate man crush as deep and passionate as the grande canyon is deep...and passionate. ok, i'm done with this thread. i wash my fingers and i say good day to you!

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 11:58am

In fairness, it's not just Mr. Roxy. Unfortunately, he represents a legion who will sit the election out in disgust. Or worse, apathy. These are sad, disturbing, scary times.

Zola's post made a lot of sense and echoes how I feel. Control of Supreme Court appointments is a huge issue for me. Stands on other issues involving international policies, the environment, and poverty, are reasons important enough to vote for one candidate over another, even if you don't like the individual. For instance, George Bush's cavalier attitude toward the Constitution is enough in and of itself to plant me firmly in the opposition's camp.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 12:40pm

I am going to vote. I believe everyone should. BUT:

I need to share my only cynicism with our election process---the electoral college. In swing states, your vote might make a difference. But, if you live in New York, all of New York's votes will be going to Kerry. If you live in Texas (as I did), all of your votes will be going to Bush. This just doesn't seem right at all. The perfect example is, of course, the 2000 election.

Let's just assume that all votes were indeed counted properly and all eligible voters were allowed to vote (I know it's hard to imagine that that is how it went down, but let's just assume). Gore had more votes, but Bush carried more electoral votes. Meaning, that when Gore lost a state, he didn't lose it by much. And, a few of Bush's losses were more substantial. I know our forefathers were brilliant men, but I do not believe that this system holds up. Why should the person who got more votes not be elected? Why should my vote for Clinton in 92 and 96 have felt meaningless when all votes from Texas went to the Republican candidates?

I already know from my friends, that most likely those of you who are Republican are going to staunchly defend the electoral college, while Democrats will more than likely share the same view as I. I have had aggravating debates on this with my Republican roomie. I wonder if he would feel as strongly if the shoes had been reversed. I know I would as I have never felt the electoral college was fair--well before 2000. It just always felt like a moot point as both the popular vote and the electoral college matched up.

The reason I am concerned is that this could be a very tight year again--in fact, the electoral college could even create a tie vote as the census changed things.

[etoile]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 12:41pm

Is there only ONE office up for election on your ballot? How stange. What a waste of money and resources. I'd look into that. Unheard of!

No one can hand anyone an answer. Think for yourself, man. When something goes againt your grain you can say, "Well see. X told me to vote for him." And yes, it often comes down to the least or lesser of assholes. You have a problem with the primary system then do something to change it.

Posted: 5/23/04 at 12:42pm

The quality of any candidate pool is more often than not formed by a minority of others as influenced by numerous factors. The choice/decision that we make in a voting booth, as in other matters that arise every day in each one of our lives, is a choice that we make wherein we have had no say in the options from which we must choose. Every decision we make in every hour of every day has an effect on every subsequent minute/hour/day of our lives. So, do we stop making decisions because we don't like the options presented to us by life?

The right to vote gives each American the option to influence the political decisions of the future. No candidate is ever the perfect candidate. The right to maturely make a decision even when presented with options one may not like is something to be treasured. By not voting one is disrespecting not only the principles on which the USA is based but also all the sacrifices made since the founding of this country by hundreds of thousands of other Americans who fought not only on battlefields here and abroad but also on the homefront to preserve the right to vote.

Rox, you may not think much of the candidates but value your right to make a choice. Exercise the courage of your convictions to vote for one candidate or the other as presented in the voting booth. The act of voting isn't a choice, it's an obligation.

I hope you consider that perspective as Election Day nears.

Cheers! Jose' Updated On: 5/23/04 at 12:42 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 2:32pm

Well written post, Bulldog. You're a much better writer than Jose.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 2:51pm

I also agree that those who don't vote have no right to complain. Has there ever been an election that wasn't down to the lesser of two evils? By not exercising the right to vote, you are saying you don't care who runs the country or why. It would be nice if there was a candidate for every citizen's individual tastes, but it simply isn't possible.

[Zola Q. LaPlaya]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 4:06pm

One of the most poignant photos of the 20th century was taken of tens of thousands of black South Africans lined up for miles to vote for the first time after apartheid was dismantled.

Man, once I saw that, I was never complacent about that right again.

Posted: 5/23/04 at 4:30pm

Qui est Jose'?

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 5/23/04 at 6:05pm

I do not trust GWB or Lurch. I trust Nader, if elected, would keep his promises & bring us back to the 19 th Century. No one has answered the $ 64,000 question: How can I vote for someone I do not trust ? I will vote for some fringe candidate from the Mc Donalds party. I will have done my duty without compromising my feelings & beliefs. There everyone should be happy. All except Dame . She will hate me until the day I die. I could not care less.