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DARK KNIGHT premiere... DEADLY shootings 14 dead many injured in Co. — Page 4

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#76

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

I don't believe anyone is breathing a sigh of relief over anything having to do with this.

What a sad world view you have.
"Two drifters off to see the world. There's such a lot of world to see. . ."
#77

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

'I mean...the right to bear arms is an enumerated right in our Constitution. It's the second one, right after freedom of press, assembly and religion. It's not like it's a small thing. It's woven into the fabric of our country'

And how long ago was that written? It also said in the Bible that if you eat shelfish it's a sin, things change with the times.


Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#79

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

"I just think that is no excuse for not having the law at all."

And what if there was a law requiring every adult to carry and know how to use a firearm?
#80

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

"I guess America is not exactly the country that should be trying to bring peace to other places."

If this is just occurring to you for the first time, then I reiterate my statement that you don't understand this country at all.


Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none
#81

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

Yawper do you have a gun? you sound like you are very pro gun

'If this is just occurring to you for the first time, then I reiterate my statement that you don't understand this country at all.'

I was being sarcastic


Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#82

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

^Wynbish, exactly.

Also, it amazes me how many people who claim to hold the Constitution as dear to them as they hold the Bible actually don't know what the Constitution says.

The exact wording of the 2nd Amendment: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

There are, of course, many different ways to analyze the Constitution and Constitutional scholars will debate until the end of time whether one should read the Constitution through the perspective of the founders' intent or to look at the Constitution as a living, evolving document.

Although I think this is generally a nonsensical approach, let's use that as context for argument's sake. The founders wrote the amendment at a time when there was no stable government. The Articles of Confederation had largely failed and they were far from certain the new Constitutional government would work. There was also no national army. During the American Revolution, the minutemen were all farmers who just happened to have guns. This is the importance of the "well regulated militia clause." People were supposed to be able to have guns because they were supposed to be part of the army. Since we now have a well regulated militia of people who have actually signed up to be in the army and do not depend on random citizens to defend us from foreign invasion, one could argue the second clause of the amendment doesn't apply. That isn't even taking into account modern weapons and whether or not James Madison and company thought we should all have machine guns capable of killing hundreds of people in under a minute. That's just looking at intent.


Scratch and claw for every day you're worth! Make them drag you screaming from life, keep dreaming You'll live forever here on earth.
#83

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

'And how long ago was that written? It also said in the Bible that if you eat shelfish it's a sin, things change with the times.'

The ability to change the Constitution is a long and difficult process. And you may have no regard for our system of government and the controlling document of our republic, but I do.

#84

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

Oh i agree it would be a big change, but if it can save lives is it not worth it?

Also as the post above shows its very outdated and no longer relevant.
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#85

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

The wackjobs have already begun blaming this on "attacks on Judeo-Christian beliefs" and we all know what means...
This Is What Happens When God Isn't In The Mix
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#86

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

It is amazing that strict constructionist of the constitution somehow are willing to be a bit more flexible when it comes to the 2nd amendment.

For the record, broadwaydevil, I agree with your analysis completely.
#87

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

I think it's terribly sad that one of the female victims had survived another shooting in the past and has now lost her life here. Terrible.
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#89

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

It's nice that people agree with broadwaydevil's analysis (and, it just so happens, so do I!), but the reality of the world we live in is that there are many people who view it differently. You don't even have to be a strict constructionist to believe that the 2nd Amendment allows the citizenry to own guns.

I have people in my family who own guns. My brother is a hunter, and he owns several rifles. My sister keeps a gun in her house as protection. These things do not bother me in the least. But I also believe that if we had stricter background checks and licensing requirements, people like my brother and sister would still be allowed to own the guns they have, preserving their 2nd Amendment right.
#90

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

But why can other people in other countries get by without having to keep guns in their houses but America cant? I honestly don't understand.

And the fact that so many gun related injuries are caused by the persons OWN gun should really tell people something.
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#91

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

It's clear that you don't understand.

You can't extrapolate one issue from the our culture and compare with other countries as if all other things were equal.




....but the world goes 'round

Updated On: 7/20/12 at 12:39 PM

#92

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

Robbie,

You misunderstand - I think that the 2nd Amendment does allow you to have a gun, but I also think that because of the conditional language, there is a basis for more regulation and control than is currently in place.

I too own a gun, legally, and generally, my issue is on the loopholes in the law, automatic weapons, and certain types of ammo. My father was a licensed firearms dealer.




#93

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But the issue here in the States is far more complicated than 'Ban guns.' I think we all like to believe that the NRA is this all-powerful organization that's making puppets out of us all. But the fact is that there are MANY, MANY people of all political stripes who believe that it is their right to own guns. And the Constitution backs them up. The Constitution will not change until there is a profound change in the culture. And that, I believe, is never going to happen. Because if it's a simple matter of people looking at the data in regard to gun deaths, it would have happened already.

Updated On: 7/20/12 at 12:40 PM

#94

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

Most states do have background checks and licensing requirements. There are loopholes that need to be closed. That won't prevent stuff like this from happening.

With all due respect, broawaydevil, the US formed the Continental Army during the Revolution and formally established the US Army prior to the creation of the Constitution.

Regarding your argument that the Second Amendment is now obsolete due to having a standing army, do you seriously think that's an original argument that hasn't already been tried before the Supreme Court?
#95

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

Meanwhile, I'll take strong gun-control laws with no parole for those found guilty of committing crimes with unregistered guns.

Agreed. Gun control IS a huge problem. Look at gun-related deaths per capita and see how the US compares to countries with stricter gun control laws. It's not a coincidence.

There are reasons why the Second Amendment exists. And it does complicate things when we all want to scream, 'Just get rid of guns!'

And the funny thing is, the Second Amendment doesn't specify "guns". It says "arms", which could be any type of weapon. We can't buy grenades, rocket launchers, or nuclear weapons, so there are obviously limits to the legality of arms for private ownership. Making guns illegal doesn't necessarily negate the Second Amendment.

It's against the law to kill people - did having that law make a difference?

So by your own logic, you believe killing shouldn't be illegal? Do you believe legalizing murder would have no effect on the number of murders committed in the US?

Nobody is claiming stricter gun control laws will eliminate the problem. But there is no reason to believe it can't reduce it.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#96

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

The sad thing is, I thought the same thing Roscoe said. Romney might be sad about the tragedy, but there's a part of him feeling a little bit of relief today.
Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.
#97

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

The Supreme Court took up that very issue in the 2008 Heller case. It is really up the federal government to craft laws that follow the Heller precedent.

For those who care, the highlights of Heller:

1. The Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home. Pp. 2–53.

...


2. Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court’s opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller’s holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those “in common use at the time” finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons. Pp. 54–56.

3. The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment . The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home. Pp. 56–64.


Heller
#98

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

It sounds to me that the perpetrator used an automatic rifle, which is illegal for civilian use (I assume tear gas is, as well).

This atrocity was planned out by someone who is very intelligent, and gun control won't necessarily hinder the efforts of someone who is determined to carry out something on this level.

Gun control does not necessarily mean violence is curbed. The UK has had a higher per capita rate of violent crime than the US- no guns allowed.

The United States is a huge, extremely complicated place. There is a huge disparity between not only its regions, but individual neighboring states. Demographics vary wildly all over the country- wealth, race, geographical features, industry, religion. Enacting a gun ban would be nearly impossible- getting it passed, getting them out.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#99

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

I appreciate the gun control issue, I do. But in this particular instance, this gut got a hold of many illegally, and violent crimes in general are down from what they were in the 70s.

Right here, right now I feel it's irrelevant. At least until we learn more information about this case. Right now, everything is just knee jerk.
#100

DARK KNIGHT Premire: 12 Dead; 50 Injured in Aurora, CO

The motives of the gunman remain a mystery. But he was a neuroscience PhD student who recently withdrew from his program, and apparently rigged his apartment with complex explosive traps. He almost reads as a villain from Nolan's films.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

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