Election 2024- Page 40

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 9:19am

I am sorry, but that image is extremely disingenuous. The quote from the BBC is that the shooter said Charlie Kirk was "full of hate and spreading hate". The bullet casings said "Hey Fascist, Catch!". CNN reported that one of his colleagues said he did not like Trump or Charlie Kirk. 

This is clearly someone who is ideologically left wing. No one else on the political spectrum would describe Charlie Kirk as "full of hate and spreading hate" or that that he is a "fascist" besides those who have ideologically left views.

This attempt to deflect reality is almost as shocking as some of the reactions. However, it's so illogical and will not hold up to any scrutiny that the debate will quickly come and go. 

Updated On: 9/13/25 at 09:19 AM

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 9:20am

....

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 9:35am

binau said: "This is clearly someone who is ideologically left wing."

Once again, you rear you ugly, ignorant head and spew uneducated rhetoric.

Updated On: 9/13/25 at 09:35 AM

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 9:40am

No, you are ignorant and uneducated. If you were more intelligent, if you had good ideas, if you could debate you would actually respond to me. You're out of ideas so you try to make it personal because you've got nothing else. 

It's because you know that it's very difficult to argue how at an individual level the same person the image implies is 'right-wing' would also call Charlie Kirk "full of hate and spreading hate" and bullet casing said "Hey Fascist, Catch! - reported on the reputable BBC. 

Prove you're educated and take me on properly, or show me you know you've lost be continuing to reply in the ways you do lol. 

[darquegk]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:09am

"Hey fascist, catch" is a video game catch phase from a popular online shooter, an audio clip that plays when you shoot one of the villain NPCs. It's one of the many 4chan and Discord "brainrot" related things found in the wake of the shooting. Even though it used a political word, the context in which it's used means more than the word itself.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:12am

binau said: "No one else on the political spectrum would describe Charlie Kirk as"full of hate and spreading hate""

Wait, what? Haven't you seen the litany of pure ugliness he spouted? You don't think a reasonable person could characterize his comments about Black pilots, Black female students, and LGBT people as "full of hate and spreading hate"?

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:12am

Charlie Kirk was reckless, irresponsible  and arrogant in his choice to publicly proclaim his views re: the right to bear arms in that he did not also make any choice, or exercise effort to regulate/create law that would keep guns out of the hands of potential criminals. 

Kirk believed, and publicly stated that, “some gun deaths every single year” was a worthy cost “so that we can have the Second Amendment“.  He was either arrogant in not considering that the “worthy cost” may include his own life, or he was reconciled and “OK” with the possibility of his own demise through gun violence. 

Charlie Kirk advocated for putting the gun that killed him into the hands of Tyler Robinson. Although I don’t condone the assassination, I am at peace with the fact that Charlie Kirk knowingly made the choices that facilitated his own demise.

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:18am

In addition to that phrase (which I'll come back to), we should also enter as an evidence point this (also from the BBC):

A second casing was inscribed with lyrics to the song "Bella Ciao" that honours World War Two-era partisans of the Italian resistance who fought Nazi Germany.

Now, darquegk, yes the context matters. So if we consider the above, if we consider that he said "Charlie Kirk is full of hate and spreading hate". If we consider that on CNN their witness, a collogue, said he didn't like Trump or Kirk. Then it seems to me that "Hey Fascist, Catch" is clearly a taunt aimed at someone he is trying to kill, likely because he believes they are Fascist - which would be completely internally consistent with someone who thinks they are full of hate and spreading hate, which would be completely consistent with someone that doesn't like Trump or Kirk, which would be completely consistent with the ideological left. This is how they talk! This is how many of you talk. 

Guys, come on. You're not going to win this one. The only way that my argument can be defeated if it turns out that the quotes from the BBC and witnesses from CNN were incorrect. This is not IMPOSSIBLE but there really is no other way you can work around this logically. You must realise that you're clutching at straws otherwise? 

If you can't accept this you're going to have to write a very convoluted explanation about how someone can kill a right-wing leader AND say all of left-wing rhetorical/symbols above AND be ideologically 'right-wing'. That would be very difficult to argue indeed. Why do you think Charlie Kirk's killer killed Charlie Kirk? 

Updated On: 9/13/25 at 10:18 AM

[kdogg36]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:26am

On other threads that I can't now respond to (I guess I don't come here often enough to keep up with fast-moving discussions), you asked everyone to agree with this statement:

“If Charlie Kirk was murdered for expressing his political views, this was wrong. No one deserves to be murdered for their political views. There is no justification. We must protect the right for people to express themselves freely without fear of violence even and ESPECIALLY when we don’t agree with them."

The reason I can't fully agree with this statement is simple: there have been political movements in history which called for the use of force against its leaders and supporters. This would be the case for any movement that was likely to cause catastrophic harm if it succeeded in its aims, and for which other means of stopping it had been exhausted. I actually don't think what I'm saying here should be too controversial; there have obviously been such movements in the past and, unfortunately, there will be again. (Of course, different people will draw their lines in very different places.)

As to whether the MAGA movement qualifies, I do not believe it does at this point in time. It is certainly dangerous enough, but it seems like elections are still basically working and free-speech protections still intact (though both of these are under severe attack). As long as this is the case, I think further use of force would do more harm than good, and I do not advocate for that. (Which is entirely consistent with the fact that I do not mourn the loss of Charlie Kirk.)

Now that I've taken the time to answer your challenge, I hope you will answer one question for me. At this point it seems almost trite, but I don't think you've answered it directly. Why did you start an accusatory thread about Charlie Kirk's death this week, but not about Melissa Hortman's assassination a few months ago?

Updated On: 9/13/25 at 10:26 AM

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:37am

kdogg36 said: "Why did you start an accusatory thread about Charlie Kirk's death this week, but not about Melissa Hortman's assassination a few months ago?"

I hear crickets... Does anyone else hear crickets?

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:39am

Thanks kdogg36, I personally find your reply to be quite thoughtful. 

Now to answer your question:

"Why did you start an accusatory thread about Charlie Kirk's death this week, but not about Melissa Hortman's assassination a few months ago?"

First, I did hear about that assassination and of course I think it's terrible. However, if it isn't obvious from my posting style I like debates, I like finding things to disagree on and to test ideas. I don't just want to talk to people that agree with me. I know from posting on this forum and the kind of city/state that it's extremely ideologically left wing, and so I know which kind of topics would lead to debate here (debate that I think is important because I think the ideological left are destroying their own movement, as we have discussed many times). 

And as I have watched this new kind of extreme left wing ideology perpetuate the US and be exported elsewhere over the past several years as we have discussed, I knew that this would likely be yet another example of the movement going too far and destroying itself that I think is important to call out and discuss. I think it's gone even more shocking than I ever predicted though because I didn't expect to see so much glee and support for the violence as we have, which has genuinely scared me. 

There are a myriad of other places I can discuss and get agreement on many of the issues with right wing politics, for example. I don't really want to talk about or solve those problems I think it gets enough attention. I want to solve the problem that we are creating for ourselves by essentially not being able to sensibly control left wing ideology at the moment. If your response is "but them", it doesn't actually solve the problem we have in the left at the moment. If you say "but them" it leads down a path of who is worse or not. Why don't we all agree on who is worse: ok it's the right. Now that we've got that out of the way, let's look in a mirror at our own behaviour and not concern ourselves with 'the right'. We can do better and it doesn't matter how others are behaving, if we do better, if we think better I think the left wing movement will be stronger, build followership and win elections again. 


 

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:52am

binau said: "I want to solve the problem that we are creating for ourselves by essentially not being able to sensibly control left wing ideology at the moment."

There is no "we" or "ourselves". Please stop the masquerade of writing as if you are a US citizen. Your hubris is intolerable.

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 10:56am

You are assuming that "we" means USA. It doesn't mean USA. It means we, who are meant to be progressive ideologically left. As I have now explained at least 3 times on this forum, the ideas that you create, the leaders you elect affects everyone in the English speaking world. Do you realise that? Have you ever actually travelled outside the USA to another English speaking country? 

Updated On: 9/13/25 at 10:56 AM

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 11:16am

binau:

Again, Your hubris is intolerable.

Your anti-American rhetoric combined with your delusional commentary re: the mentally unhinged thought that you, who are not a US citizen, have any control over "fixing" my Country is far, far beyond being described as insulting.

You are a stone in the shoe of America. You do nothing more than irritate and cause discomfort.

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 11:19am

I am very happy with the posts I have made in the last page or two and I think the quality of the thinking speaks for itself. Even if people disagree with me I think people can see it. Meanwhile, you have contributed almost nothing in reply except personal attacks. If that makes you feel good or if you think you are making yourself look good carry on lol. 

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 11:32am

binau said: "I am very happy with the posts I have made in the last page or two and I think the quality of the thinking speaks for itself."

Yes, it does.

"Even if people disagree with me I think people can see it."

Yes, I believe they do.

"Meanwhile, you have contributed almost nothing in reply except personal attacks."

As Americans, we all do what we can to defend our Country.

Updated On: 9/13/25 at 11:32 AM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 3:47pm

The fact that the MAGAt tried to make us watch a graphic video and if WE DIDNT we are terrorists? Hilarious. I guess he will defend and explain away all of Charlie's quotes as he's never acknowledged them/pretended they aren't real. Typical MAGA behavior. The fact is Charlie wanted Binau and everyone like him dead. And the shooter was not a Democrat or liberal. At all. But of course, he won't admit that or speak on Charlie's violent hate speech.

Self-hatred is real in the MAGAt community because they're stupid, lonely, jobless, friendless, etc. etc. etc. No one mourns assholes except other assholes. Enjoy the funeral, I hope you weep over a person who would never help you if you were bleeding out in the street...... without a second thought.

"One issue I think that is so against our senses, so against the natural law and dare I say a throbbing middle finger to God, is the transgender thing happening in America right now,"

"Gay couples are not happy just having marriage. Instead, they now want to corrupt your children.”

"Martin Luther King Jr. is a myth and the Civil Rights Act was a huge mistake".

"We should just take care of transgender people the way we used to take care of things in the 1950s and 60s.” 

- Charlie Kirk

Sending SO MUCH LOVE to the wonderful children at Evergreen High School, who didn't deserve any of that horror. 

 

Updated On: 9/13/25 at 03:47 PM

[ACL2006]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 4:42pm

binau, like all MAGAs this weekend, still are utterly dumbfounded that Robinson was a conservative. They're denying it 100%. Blaming the liberal media instead. Whether you like it or not, you're a MAGA, because you defend everything Dumpster does. Additionally, you're in the MAGA camp that thought Kirk was this innocent, white, good Christian that couldn't possibly spew hate because he spoke the word of the Bible. I gave boatloads of examples as to why half this country isn't mourning this man. Go back into your Aussie, MAGA cave, binau.

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 5:29pm

I don’t think anything you think I do, and the fact that you cannot reply in detail to the specific points about the ideology I made to me suggests you are also unfortunately not as intelligent as you think you are. Why don’t you go and read my post again about the burden of proof required for you to make that claim and then if you’re actually smart enough try to provide that evidence? Based on that language I don’t think you have the intellectual ability. You actually can’t do it it’s quite funny and hilarious to watch haha. Do you sit on your keyboard all confused about what words you can use and end up just following where the emotion takes you? You go guy/gurl. What a warrior.

[ACL2006]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 5:50pm

I already explained to you in the other thread(now locked) about why Kirk is a piece of sh!t. I don't need to explain it again. And now you're calling those opposing you "not intelligent". Go F*ck yourself and go back to your MAGA cave.

[binau]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 5:57pm

I'm saying that if you could actually read information and think critically, you would have engaged in the discussion about the borden of proof required to make a claim about the ideology of the shooter. But you literally seem incapable of doing it. Even your reply just then, you are saying the problem is that people are 'opposing me' but no, the problem is the lack of engagement with the actual ideas and content. It makes your replies seem very superficial and lacking any intellectual depth, which does make me question whether perhaps like John Adams you're another person that doesn't have much going on up there. 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 6:18pm

And again, the shooter is an ultra, right-wing conservative. MAGAs can't wrap their heads around that notion. Go to your solo-Kirk memorial in Australia while waiving the Pride flag. I'm sure you won't get assaulted.

 

And you're blocked. Got back to your MAGA, gay cave. Good luck finding someone else that has the same self-righteous, gay conservative beliefs you do.

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 6:22pm

You're better and far more intelligent than AussieMAGA will ever hope to be. Trust.

[Highland Guy]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 6:25pm

binau said: "I'm saying that if you could actually read information and think critically, you would have engaged in the discussion about the borden of proof required to make a claim about the ideology of the shooter."

I want to think critically.  Where can I read information on the "borden of proof".  I've looked on a Borden milk carton, but it's not there.

 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 9/13/25 at 6:43pm

Here's a sampling of the kinds of things he's said over the years:

 

▪️On his opinion of Black people:

 

"If I see a Black pilot, I'm going to be like, 'Boy, I hope he's qualified.'"

 

▪️On Martin Luther King, Jr:

 

“MLK was awful... He's not a good person. He said one good thing he actually didn't believe.”

 

▪️On transgender people:

 

“I refuse to lie. I will not call a man a woman or a woman a man, like, I refuse to do that. And in fact, I reject the entire premise of transgenderism. I don't think it really exists. I think it’s a mental disease, and we’ve allowed it to all of a sudden become an identity... Transgenderism is a brain problem, not a body problem, and that’s how we should go about it.”

 

▪️On feminism:

 

"...it is the leading feminist organizations in the country that are either silent or complicit in pushing this [transgender rights], because feminism was never about advancing female rights. Feminism was about hating men. What better way to hate men than to take young boys and chop off their parts?"

 

▪️On Jewish people:

 

“Jewish communities have been pushing the exact kind of hatred against whites that they claim to want people to stop using against them... It is true that some of the largest financiers of left-wing anti-white causes have been Jewish Americans..”

 

▪️On immigration:

 

"America was at its peak when we halted immigration for 40 years and we dropped our foreign-born percentage to its lowest level ever. We should be unafraid to do that."

 

▪️On what women should really want:

 

“The biggest thing is this: more younger women need to get married at a younger age and start having kids. The single woman issue is one of the biggest issues facing a civilization.

 

We have more single women in their early 30s that are the most depressed, suicidal, anxious, and lonely in America’s history because there’s a biological clock that’s going off and they realize that they’re not going to be able to have kids, that they’re not as desirable in the dating market or in the dating pool, and so they start to lash out on the rest of society by voting Democrat."

 

▪️On the importance of keeping Americans armed:

 

“Yes, people die from gun violence. It’s tragic. But that's the price of freedom. Unfortunately, it's worth it to keep the Second Amendment intact.

 

I think it’s worth it. It’s worth it to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God given rights. That’s a prudent deal. It is rational."

 

He spent his life advocating for a country where people should feel unafraid to openly express their hate, and where other people can freely buy and carry guns to shoot at other people in schools, in churches, in their workplaces, or at public events.